Speaker 1: 0:07

Welcome to Aging with Purpose and Passion, the podcast designed to inspire your greatness and thrive through life. Get ready to conquer your fears. Here's your host psychotherapist, coach and empowerment expert, Beverly Glazer.

Beverley Glazer: 0:30

How do you protect your loved ones when you don't have millions of dollars in a trust? Well, welcome to Aging with Purpose and Passion, the podcast for women over 50 who are ready to stop settling and live life on their own terms. Each week, you will hear raw conversations, inspiring stories and get practical tools to help you reignite your fire. I'm Beverley Glazer and I'm a transformational coach and therapist for women ready to reclaim their voice and break free from what's holding them back, and you can find me on reinventimpossiblecom. Sara Ecklein is the founder of Trust and Honor and host of the Legacy of Love, a podcast to redefine what it means to leave a legacy. She's a licensed professional fiduciary and she helps ordinary families, not just the rich and famous, to protect their loved ones with intention, clarity and heart. Do you think that a legacy is just about money and wills? In this episode, we are flipping the script and we'll be showing you how to protect your family, your wishes and your peace of mind, even if you don't have a huge estate. So keep listening and welcome Sarah.

Sara Ecklein: 1:59

Oh, Bev, thank you for that warm welcome. I'm so happy to be here.

Beverley Glazer: 2:05

Thank you for that warm welcome. I'm so happy to be here, Sara, you're younger than 50. And that's what I thought would be most interesting, and that's why you're here as a guest, because our audience is over 50. And so, simply because of that, that makes you very special, I have to say, because at 24, you had a wake-up call. What was that wake-up call?

Sara Ecklein: 2:33

Yeah well, it was really being witnessed to a final like kind of the final three days of a loved one's life. My partner at the time's aunt got referred to hospice. She was dying of brain cancer. She was actually in her fifties. She had two children, both in high school, and when we got the call I put everything down.

Sara Ecklein: 3:01

I was working left and we drove up and it just had this profound impact on my life.

Sara Ecklein: 3:09

Of course I didn't know it at the time and I do describe it as it was like a mystical spiritual experience for me, where all the noise and the chatter and busyness of life just goes away with death.

Sara Ecklein: 3:25

I say death is kind of the ultimate truth serum and it can bring into full focus, like our own, like life and life force. Whether you believe in God, whatever your spiritual beliefs and religious beliefs are, I think we're all connected to that life force. So for me, being witness to her death just was being so present to this unconditional loving presence and I noticed in myself this wanting to lean in and being present to her dying. And most people they don't have that inclination I find most people are running away from death. So it was so obvious for me that this was a calling, of a place, of where I needed to serve. I originally thought that I would be working as a hospice nurse and started going back to school, and then some things weren't quite aligned and eventually my path led me to working for a professional fiduciary, and really the rest is history.

Beverley Glazer: 4:35

It sure is. But for those who do not know what is a professional fiduciary, Explain what that is.

Sara Ecklein: 4:45

Yeah. So I think, first off, it's important to just point out that I'm based in California. I'm in the San Francisco Bay Area. California does things a little differently than most states and we're one of two states that actually has licensing for this profession. So that's where, with the work that I do, it really does become state specific. Or I know that you're outside of the US, you're in Canada, and so working with an attorney in your local area is very important.

Sara Ecklein: 5:22

But, that being said, the work that I do, I describe it as an umbrella term of different hats that I can wear.

Sara Ecklein: 5:31

So I can act as someone's guardian we use the word conservator to distinguish between a minor and an adult, but in essence it's the same role, it's just conservators or for someone over the age of 18.

Sara Ecklein: 5:48

I can act as a trustee, as an executor, and I think also one of the wonderful things that I can do is act as someone's agent for both finance and healthcare. So with whatever hat I'm wearing for my clients, typically I'm wearing multiple, but not always. Sometimes I'm only wearing, like the trustee hat, for example, but a lot of times I'm kind of supporting both the financial aspects of people life and also that really person-centered focus of making healthcare decisions and it's really just I can't say where I describe the work that I do as like this head and heart alignment where I'm absolutely of service to my clients every day. There's not a day that goes by that I don't question the impact that I have. But then, of course, there's just always this interest and engaging because people have unique lives and own different assets and have different family dynamics. So when I come into the family and and supporting and whatever hat that I'm wearing, I'm always learning and always growing.

Beverley Glazer: 7:01

So it's deeper than just being a financial advisor. That's what I'm hearing.

Sara Ecklein: 7:06

Yeah, yeah, and I, I, you know, I actually a lot of times when people hear the word fiduciary, they confuse me and think that I'm a financial advisor, because financial advisors can also be held to that same fiduciary standard that I'm held to, which really fiduciary means you're putting your client's interest before your own, which unfortunately is not the standard in all professions. You think it would, but that's not always the case. But yeah, I don't manage money. I would partner with a financial advisor for clients that have enough assets for those services. But yeah, no, I know my clients very intimately, very closely. I know all of my clients and, depending on what role I'm at, sometimes it can be as frequently as meeting twice a week like in-person meetings. Of course, that's when I'm typically wearing the hat of a healthcare decision maker and supporting someone kind of during their kind of final you know, their final season in life.

Beverley Glazer: 8:17

But there can be all kinds of different family units. What happens if there's complication between the children or they say what, you don't trust me, you don't trust us. What happens there when there's conflict?

Sara Ecklein: 8:33

Yeah, I mean, that's not an easy answer. My initial thoughts are a lot of times why a professional is needed is because there is conflict. So I think you know we can all agree that families are changing right. People are living longer, people are choosing to either have fewer children or no children at all. You know, divorce rates are, you know, I think, 51% at least in the United States, and then also remarriage. This all adds complexity. So let's just talk about my active cases.

Sara Ecklein: 9:16

A lot of times I am coming in maybe needing to be a neutral party and really look at what is in the client's best interest, and there can be those dynamics where, you know, siblings are fighting of what's really best to do and I have to be that neutral party. I also work with clients in the planning phase and this is a lot of what I love to speak on. I think that there's so much that we can do proactively, not only for our own selves but also our loved ones and that future generation. When things go well, I find it's not by chance Things go well for families that are really leaning in to the hard conversations. We're willing to look and face our own mortality and death and I would say that we're really a death denying culture. So death is a big taboo, money's a big taboo, money's a big taboo.

Sara Ecklein: 10:25

And then with also family dynamics and stuff, there can just be a lot of shame and wanting to avoid the difficult, hard conversations. And so I think it makes sense of why I don't know the statistics in Canada, but I would guess that it's not far off from the U? S but the United States only one in three people actually have an estate plan, um, and so most people aren't planning, and so of course it would make sense that you know I think most of us know the examples of families being torn apart, um, you know, after the matriarch and patriarchs of the family pass away, and fighting over things. And that's so much of what inspired me to launch my podcast called the Legacy of Love, because I think that if we're really cultivating not only just these difficult conversations but cultivating these qualities within ourselves, I think at the end of the day, this really does come down to identity and who we're choosing to be and the legacy, not that only that we will leave, but the legacy that we're living.

Beverley Glazer: 11:36

Beautifully said. Let me ask you, what if somebody says well, I don't have very much money, I don't have millions of dollars for a trust and now I'm going to be hiring someone else, which will be even more money. But what to speak to that? Do you really need a huge amount of money? Who comes to you?

Sara Ecklein: 11:59

Yeah, yeah. So I would say, for the most part, for clients that choose to work with a professional, and also let me, I think it's important to say I think most families aren't going to work with a professional. So, people that you're choosing to either be your executor, your trustee, your agent, making healthcare decision makers for you, I think for most people it's going to be someone in your life, whether it's your adult children, extended family, an entrusted friend. So it's not that everyone needs to work with a professional, it's more of that. We really need to be thinking this through and planning and hopefully, you know, I feel like I find that maybe then less people might even need professionals, but anyways, we're we're far off from that day.

Beverley Glazer: 12:56

For sure, for sure. But what if somebody says well, I have a, I don't have much money, I really have a small estate.

Sara Ecklein: 13:03

Yeah, and you know, bev, that's where I get really kind of fired up. I think it's so much of you know kind of misinformation within you know, between Hollywood and movies and you know what is the story that's being shown to us, right, we can think of shows like Succession, right, where it's like this billion dollar family, but there's just so many movies where, yeah, it's only kind of seen for the wealthy. Or if you hear the word trust fund, you assume that that person has a lot of money. Again, I can really speak mostly to California. Has a lot of money. Again, I can really speak mostly to California. We just had a recent change this year of bumping up that threshold, whether or not you need to go to probate court or not. Before it was about $180,000. So if your estate was more than that it really made sense to set up a trust. It's just bumped up to like around 750,000. I'm not an attorney so I don't know the specifics, but still, like you know, especially you know, in the cities right, I'm in the Bay Area and LA I mean most homes are over a million dollars where in California. So that's where, more times than not, it still makes sense to set up a trust.

Sara Ecklein: 14:32

But the other piece, I think, is that our estate plan isn't only about our assets. It's also directing of who's going to be making decisions for you in the event of your incapacity. So that's what your power of attorney document is for, that's what your advanced health care directive is for. Everyone needs those documents.

Sara Ecklein: 14:57

These are crucial because I think that's where you know, going back to kind of one of my points of we're a death denying culture and why, the more that I kind of peel the onion of why do people not plan, I think I really come to that our brain tricks us and the denial of death is kind of part of kind of our biology we're going to think that there's always a tomorrow, kind of our biology. We're going to think that there's always a tomorrow. So, yeah, I think that that's where it is a bit of like this perfect storm between kind of what we're fed from media, of misinformation, and how we should think about estate planning. But really, at the end of the day, once you're turn 18, there are certain documents that we can really all have. I'm finding more attorneys actually are beginning to kind of broadcast that like if your child's going off to college. These are some of the key pieces that you could do, because if something happens to them, even though you're a parent, you might not be receiving any information on them, especially with that healthcare piece Right, so crucial.

Beverley Glazer: 16:09

What challenges do you see older women face?

Sara Ecklein: 16:13

Oh well, um, we live longer, right, we live longer. So, um, yeah, I have a lot, a lot of my clients are the single ladies, um, whether or not they were married and they're just the surviving spouse or they were never married and didn't have children. Um, those are some of my, my favorite clients, cause I support them in a lot of roles and we build really close relationships. But, yeah, the, I think it's just that right, we're living longer and, you know, also, for the single ladies, they might not have as many assets, as you know, as as people that are, you know, married and you know, partnered with a man and you know partnered with a man, so there might not be as many resources. So that actually is like one of my you know, my, I would say, more recent clients that have passed. She passed a couple of years ago and we had a really close relationship.

Sara Ecklein: 17:24

I got involved in her life when she was having a full-on medical crisis in her seventies, so still fairly young. She was working basically up until that as an accountant and she basically didn't really have a well-thought-out plan, thought out plan. She was single, never married, no children, and where she lived she was on the top floor, the third floor of her condo, no elevators, so three flights of stairs to get there and she kept falling, getting hospitalized, transferred to a rehab facility to heal, then going back home and the whole cycle would happen again. That happened four times before I started working with her. So there was a huge kind of mess with her financial life because basically bills weren't paid, some like around six months. So bringing her kind of up to date on paying all the bills. And then there was also this like needing to assess what's really going on medically and that took a lot of time because what was happening was she didn't have that person alongside her and her cognitive decline was also part and tied into her physical decline. It was all kind of going hand in hand. And so she's getting these discharge paperwork and the doctor is talking to her. She wasn't really able to retain what was going on, so needing to go back over the last six months figure out what was going on and she was a bit of a mystery. So even there there wasn't like total clarity. It was also advocating and needing to push for more exams, but also building the relationships with her medical team.

Sara Ecklein: 19:30

And then I would say the last piece that was really important was she finally, before I started working with her, was placed at an assisted living facility but it really wasn't sustainable for her budget. She was, like I said, in her 70sies and while she had a lot going on medically, I was still planning for longevity and she also. Not only was it not sustainable financially, but I don't think it was the best place for her. This woman was super private, liked her space, and with larger facilities there's more staff and there's a lot of different people going in and out, so kind of the other piece that I worked with her over the months first working together was finding a better place for her and I moved her to.

Sara Ecklein: 20:17

We have what's called a board and care but there's licensing, but it is it's a home. It's in residential Um, but nurses live in house and she lived with four other women. She had this beautiful um kind of master bedroom that opened out to the garden and she had the care and the support, plus it was less expensive. So it really ended up being kind of a good fit for her and she lived there her final years and it was just. It was better. She was having issues of just feeling like agitated and aggravated of all these people coming in and out of her room before to then just having two people that were supporting her and really kind of building that sense of support and community and really kind of building that sense of support and community.

Beverley Glazer: 21:05

When I'm listening, I'm thinking Sarah, you are like a professional friend and daughter. Oh, that's so sweet. That's how I'm sure your clients look at you, Because it's a matter of trust. And what can you tell someone who is just like that, that client that you have that doesn't not want to start the conversation, that even has children or people that they can rely on, but they're just afraid of opening up that difficult conversation?

Sara Ecklein: 21:42

afraid of opening up that difficult conversation. I know it's hard to go there right, especially when we're not willing or resistant to it. I can't I mean I can paint pictures of kind of like the horror stories of when we don't, when we don't plan, you know, if we're not willing to do that. So that's where I really like to speak to is who are we going to choose to be, you know, for ourselves, for our family? There's times in our lives and I definitely see this kind of with the there's kind of like a parting of two camps. You know our senior years camps, you know our senior years. There's the people that really embrace it, that are willing to pivot, that are resilient, that are flexible, and then there's the people that are kind of holding on to the past and who they once were and not willing to change, and I can kind of anticipate that over the years, as they're declining, it's going to be a real fighting battle. We can frame this season as what are we moving towards? What is our vision? What do we want to leave for? You know our legacy, whether or not you have children or not, just also for the world and the next generation. And I think that the more that we're willing to have the difficult conversations, even if it's, you know, I think, most importantly for ourselves to really acknowledge that you know we're not able to do what we once were, and how can we plan around that things are going to go so much better in this season of life?

Sara Ecklein: 23:35

I had a client pass a couple of years ago who was 110 years so, and she's always my model client when I work with clients in the planning phase.

Sara Ecklein: 23:45

So you know our longevity yes, it can be so long, but we also want these years to be quality years, right, we don't only want to just be fighting the process and also resistant to building in the support and the community that we need during our you know, our aging years. So you know, whether or not you're working with a professional, whether you're just building that support with your family, it's again just, I think, reminding us, like we know that right, the truth that you know things are going to, of course, change and evolve. You know, and you can also see that, like with, things are going to, of course, change and evolve. You know, and you can also see that, like with people's homes and people's belongings, especially like that next generation Most people you know don't appreciate, like the antiques and the and the China. So that's where also being proactive and, and you know, downsizing now, not requiring a crisis. It really is a night and day difference.

Beverley Glazer: 24:49

So plan for yourself, don't fear, it is what I'm hearing.

Sara Ecklein: 24:54

Yeah.

Beverley Glazer: 24:55

We all know the end result. Don't deny it. Do it with power.

Sara Ecklein: 25:01

Yeah, it's definitely stepping into that. I mean, when we're in control of our own change, like that feels right, like we're all human, that feels way better to let go of those things that you no longer need. Then, oh my gosh, I'm going through a medical crisis, I'm forced to kind of downsize, I can no longer live at home because my care needs are too high, and now you're just going through like kind of these multiple losses, like a whole shock to the system. So I think the more that we're kind of cultivating this like ongoing in our relationship, it really can give us the opportunity to evolve and grow into those like wise women.

Beverley Glazer: 25:48

Right, that's what I try to embody, even in my 30s I think you're doing a very, very good job and you left some wonderful information. We have to open up to it. Get out of the denial. I want to thank you, sarah.

Beverley Glazer: 26:05

Sarah Ecklein is a California licensed professional fiduciary and founder of Trust and Honor, a mindful fiduciary agency serving families in the San Francisco Bay Area and beyond. She is the host of the Legacy of Love podcast that redefines what is the meaning of leaving a legacy. Here are a few takeaways from this episode. Legacy is not only about wealth. You don't need to have billions to leave something meaningful behind.

Beverley Glazer: 26:39

Avoiding the conversation causes more pain than having it in the first place and whether you're solo, aging in a blended family or caring for aging parents, a fiduciary can bring you peace of mind. If you've been avoiding this end-of-life conversation, here are some easy things to empower you to move forward. Ask yourself what stories and memories you want to leave behind. Locate your legal documents and, if you don't have them, start working on them and pick one safe person to talk to and start the conversation. For similar episodes on empowering yourself in later years, check out episodes 96 and 125 of Aging with Purpose and Passion and, if you love podcasts for older women, the Late Bloomer Living podcast will give you a fresh perspective on midlife and aging.

Beverley Glazer: 27:41

On Wednesdays, Yvonne Marches interviews inspiring guests and experts who provide valuable guidance on navigating the unique challenges in midlife and beyond, and this podcast is all about celebrating the courage to grow, change and find joy at any age. The link is going to be in the show notes below. And where can people learn more about you, Sara? Where can they find your services? Where can they listen to your podcast? What are your links?

Sara Ecklein: 28:13

Yeah, so for social media, I'm most active on LinkedIn so you can search my name. I know I'll be linked in the show notes. Trustandhonorco is my website. You can find my podcast there. We're on kind of all the major platforms. You know Apple, spotify, soon enough, I'll be on YouTube as well and I also have a free resource for listeners. If this conversation resonated. It's a legacy of love workbook and really it's an exercise for wherever you're at in your planning journey, whether you've spent zero time on it or maybe you already have an estate plan. This is a like we talked about. This is an ongoing kind of cultivation and conversation with ourself and loved ones, so getting clear on your values, on your wishes, the legacy that you want to both live and leave behind. So you can also get that in the link in the show notes.

Beverley Glazer: 29:16

Excellent. All Sara's services are on my site too. That's re-inventimpossiblecom. And, of course, they're in the show notes below. And so, my friends, what's next for you? Are you just going through the motions or are you living a life that you truly love? Get my free guide to go from stuck to unstoppable, and that's also in the show notes below. You can connect with me, beverly Glazer, on all social media platforms and in my positive group on Facebook. That's Women Over 50 Rock, and thank you for listening. Have you enjoyed this conversation? Please subscribe. Help us spread the word by dropping a review and sending it to a friend, and remember you only have one life, so live it with purpose and passion.

Speaker 1: 30:15

Thank you for joining us. You can connect with Bev on her website, reinventimpossiblecom and, while you're there, join our newsletter Subscribe so you don't miss an episode. Until next time, keep aging with purpose and passion and celebrate life.