Speaker 1: 0:07

Welcome to Aging with Purpose and Passion, the podcast designed to inspire your greatness and thrive through life. Get ready to conquer your fears. Here's your host psychotherapist, coach and empowerment expert, Beverly Glazer psychotherapist, coach and empowerment expert, Beverly Glazer.

Beverley Glazer: 0:38

Why is homelessness hitting women over 50 more than ever before? Welcome to Aging with Purpose and Passion, the podcast for women over 50 who are ready to stop settling and live life on their own terms. Each week, you'll hear raw conversations, inspiring stories and get practical tools to help you reignite your own fire. I'm Beverly Glazer, a reinvention catalyst for women who are ready to keep raising the bar, and you can find me on reinventimpossiblecom. Dionne Payne didn't set out to be a property developer. She set out to solve a crisis. Dionne is the founder and CEO of Women for Housing, a social impact company tackling the root of homelessness for women by creating affordable, sustainable housing and low-risk opportunities for property investment. Dionne has raised over $45 million for ethical developments and helped over 40 investors earn double-digit returns. She is a number one Amazon best-selling author of ethical property investing and a trailblazing advocate for financial security for women who've been underserved for far too long. But this episode is not just about real estate. It's about claiming your power and your self-worth. So keep listening. Welcome, dionne.

Dionne Payn: 2:06

Welcome. Thank you, Beverley, it's wonderful to be here. You're in.

Beverley Glazer: 2:10

Australia.

Dionne Payn: 2:12

That's right.

Beverley Glazer: 2:13

And you were brought up in the UK a completely different place and from a Pentecostal family. And what was life like living in a Pentecostal family in the UK?

Dionne Payn: 2:31

Interesting. That's how I would start. Look, there were some really wonderful things about it. The Pentecostal church that we were in there was a big community, a big church going community and, overlaid on that, my family and and a lot of the church community were migrated from Jamaica to the UK. So I had both the, the religion and the culture, which was a really beautiful mix.

Dionne Payn: 3:00

And, and so my childhood I just remember lots of celebration and togetherness and community, and I remember when I moved away, I did actually miss that, but you know, and no childhood is ever perfect, right so I remember my parents being very strict and loving and, you know, absolutely wanting the best for all of us as children and you know, absolutely wanting the best for all of us as children. But, yeah, they were strict and I, yeah, look, I remember just having a pretty good childhood, full of love, full of community, full of celebration. And, yeah, on the side of the church, I do remember I got to a point where I just, you know, I was sort of in my mid-teens and I wanted to party and enjoy life and church seemed to be restricting that, so I ended up leaving church.

Beverley Glazer: 4:02

But still in terms of the community. It was one thing that I definitely missed when I left and in your 20s and 30s.

Dionne Payn: 4:09

What was life like for you? Good, good. I went to university. I met my husband my now husband when I was in my early 20s. We moved to Australia and I continued studying here. I remember when I first came to Australia, we landed in Brisbane and a friend of ours that we'd gone to university with when we were in the UK. He was living there and he brought us down to Byron Bay and I just remember thinking this is heaven, this is just the most beautiful place that I've ever been, and when we realized that we could stay, we made the choice. I remember asking my husband can we stay? And everything just fell into place. And so we've been here ever since, not directly in Byron Bay, but just in the outskirts of it. And it's a beautiful location, a wonderful community. It's lush and green, it's full of nature, and when it came time for us to have children which we started in our early 30s I just felt so grateful that we could do that in an environment like this.

Beverley Glazer: 5:15

So when were you attracted to this cult that you said that you were in?

Dionne Payn: 5:19

Oh, that was a really interesting story. So I and you know it comes back to that sense of community and wanting that sense of community that we're doing good things. And I just remember I was at a point in my life where and it was when I started property development actually and I just remember the first big project that I had and I was hitting brick walls and, you know, everything was kind of in place but it wasn't quite working.

Dionne Payn: 5:51

I remember going to a networking event and meeting somebody who just I don't know, there was something really beautiful about her and I just remember thinking I want whatever she's got. And we got talking and she told me about a course that was happening in a couple of weekends' time. And I went along to the course and I remember, you know, I was still sort of in this, like I'm hitting a brick wall. I know that, like I said, everything's there, everything's in place, but there's something here that's not working. And so, you know, I did this weekend course and after that weekend course everything fell into place because I discovered a limiting belief that I had, and so from that point I was hooked. I was like, oh my gosh, this is the best thing ever. And so I still, you know, I kept going, I kept going along and I ended up. I did a number of courses. I ended up teaching other people and the teachings are really beautiful. Teaching other people and the teachings are really beautiful, um, but the, the I would call it a, a spiritual multi-level marketing scheme. So you kind of get in and you're um, you're inducted and your responsibility is to get as many people as you can underneath you. Um, and all the money's going to the top, the top, and as somebody in that I saw very little of that. So it was a period of my life where it was quite confusing, actually, because I knew that the techniques worked, but at a certain because otherwise I wouldn't have continued with it had it not Sorry, I should say I wouldn't have started with it had it not.

Dionne Payn: 7:26

But at some point there was a, there was a definite shift in me using the techniques to the techniques being used against me and and it took you know, I was involved in it for four years the pandemic hits and and you know, sort of it petered off, which was great. And then, and then, about four years later, I realized what it was and you know, sort of having spoken to some people that had also left and, you know, for me the pennies fell into place. But the biggest thing for me that came out of that was when I asked the question well, why did I override the red flags in myself that you know, I saw at the beginning, the red flags in myself that you know, I saw at the beginning. And the answer to that was that I'd been trained to place my power outside of myself. So, rather than looking at myself for the answers, I'd been trained into, you know, sort of seeking the answers from somebody higher than me.

Dionne Payn: 8:20

And once I got that realization, I just went ah, so you know, and I'd been doing other spiritual courses after I left the cult and just realized that, yeah, the answers are in me and I can, you know, sort of go within for that guidance and you know, in terms of what I want. So it was really powerful. And what's interesting was, at the same time that I made that realization about the cult and about the giving of my power was the same time that Women for Homes, the company, actually landed for me in terms of this is something that I need to do. So quite spooky how it happened, but quite beautiful in the sense of that time wasn't wasted, and so something really beautiful has come out of that.

Beverley Glazer: 9:11

When did you see that there was a problem for women over 50, for older women, for property? Where did you see there was that gap?

Dionne Payn: 9:20

Oh, all the way through my developing career. So I started in 2013, which was our first development, and you know it was really small. It was a subdivision and a renovation and we did a number of those. So that first three projects I didn't really see it. It wasn't until I did the affordable housing project, which was about four projects in, and I didn't do it because it was an affordable housing project, which was about four projects in, and I didn't do it because it was an affordable housing project initially.

Dionne Payn: 9:50

I did it because I looked at it and I looked at the scale of it and I was ready to do something a bit bigger than I'd done before and my whole thought was wow, we're going to make a mozza out of this. Mozza is an Australian word for lots of money, right. So I just thought, oh, wow, like we're going to do really well financially out of this project. Um, and so the way that it worked was that the homes were. I'd calculated that we could sell the homes for $350,000. When we were doing in the area itself, most homes were selling for $600,000 or $650,000. So I remember the very first thing I did once we'd secured the site we hadn't bought it, but we just put an option across the property so that it meant that we had the right but we weren't obligated to buy it.

Dionne Payn: 10:49

But once we'd secured the land, I then went and put a post out on Facebook, actually to my friend group, and said, hey, I'm thinking of doing this project, is there any interest? Because I really needed to know before we went. You know, signed the piece of paper but it was going to sell, and the very first person that responded to me was a friend of mine and she had recently come into inheritance. It was tiny but it was enough to get her into one of these. So, you know, for her it was quite scary because it was the first property she'd ever bought and she was on her own. For me it was quite scary because it was, you know, the first time I'd done anything this big. But you know, talking about the, because it was, you know, the first time I'd done anything this big. But you know, talking about the cult. It was actually that weekend workshop that I did where I said everything came together, I found the partners, I found the first client, and it just felt like everything was on a roll, and so for me at that time it was like, okay, this is fantastic, this is what I need to do.

Dionne Payn: 11:44

So the very first time to go back to your question that I realized that there was a problem was when that friend of mine came on board and I thought, oh well, if she's struggling to find something that she can afford, who else is out there that's struggling? And and from that project we had nurses and teachers and paramedics that were able to purchase those properties. Three of the homes were for social housing, so they had to be managed by a housing provider that specialises in providing social housing for people with low incomes, and so it all just came together really beautifully that three of those homes were for social housing, so we knew that very low income people were being served by that, and at least two of those were women. I knew that and just also recognising that for single women at that time it was really hard and it was just by grace that my friend who was the only person that I knew in that development, but it was by grace that she had the means to be able to get into something like that. So that was the first time that I realized it, but it was when I was and I actually saw it as well during the pandemic and I did a bit of surveying of women in my local community.

Dionne Payn: 13:04

I remember hearing somebody that was saying look, I'm looking for a home. The only things that I can afford at the moment will be 80% of my rent. I need to have medication. I can't afford to pay rent and buy medication. I don't know what I'm going to do. And I just kept hearing that kind of story repeated again and again and again, to the point of I heard that story about this time last week as well. So, yeah, homelessness, the homelessness problem for older women is it's increased since the pandemic and it was probably going on before then and I just didn't have the awareness of it and but it's certainly not getting any better. I talk with community housing providers and I was with one early this week and they're celebrating because they've got, you know, homes for 20, 30, 60 people and it's like that's fantastic and I'm not knocking the achievement at all, it really is fantastic. But we have a backlog of thousands of women, thousands of thousands of families.

Beverley Glazer: 14:09

So, um, yeah, this is a really significant problem yes, but people who invest in property Dion, they're doing this as an investment. They want to make money, and so what do you tell to those investors? How will they be able to make money if they're going to be investing in social housing?

Dionne Payn: 14:34

So that's a really great question, and I the thing that just sort of came to me just then was that if all of the property investors around the world invested into affordable and sustainable housing, we would not have a housing crisis. We just wouldn't. So the what we're dealing with here is a shift in paradigm from business as usual, which isn't working, to property investment in a way that serves people and planet. And we can absolutely do that, and that's why I talk about, you know, women for Homes. We will inspire a million women to invest $5,000 to end homelessness by 2030, whilst being financially empowered along the way. And that bit is important, because we're not talking about charity. There is absolutely a place for charity, but what I see is that lots of charities are, you know, it's very competitive for donations, and so charities are fighting amongst the scraps, and so charities are fighting amongst the scraps. Again, I'm not disregarding or putting down any of the charities that are doing this important work, because in these communities, it's really important, but what I'm seeing is that charities are stretched and they're not able to service the number of people that they need to. So the model that I'm talking about it's a win-win-win. It's a win for property investors, and particularly for women, because they're not missing out on the property investment gains. They're still getting those good returns. It's a win for the tenants because they're then able to pay an affordable rent, which then helps them to get out of crisis into stability, into being able to thrive. And it's a win for society at large as well, because when we have people that can afford to live in homes that do offer them dignity, we have a much better society. When we have that, you know, the gap between the haves and the have-nots ever widening, the gap between the haves and the have-nots ever widening, and the have-nots and I'm just using that word because it's a word that we use in our common vernacular so the have-nots then just feeling resentful and disenfranchised and that's just not a great society to be living in. So if we want a cohesive society, we have to address that inequality.

Dionne Payn: 17:00

Now to get back to your question specifically how do we make it happen? It's using all of the levers that we have access to. So we have access to government funding, we have access to philanthropy. Those organizations are putting money into these kinds of projects on a large scale because they recognize that they need to. They absolutely need to, but because they're putting the money in on a large scale and the amount of money or the amount of interest that they're charging on that money is really low. That's where the opportunity is for investors to fill that gap and to get the good returns.

Dionne Payn: 17:37

Because the thing about property development and property development 101, which is what I learned back in the day was you need to make sure that you have a minimum of a 20% profit margin when you do a development In this economic climate. You need to make sure that it's at least 25% to 30%, because it only takes a period of prolonged bad weather and your margins slip. It takes, you know, a supply chain disruption your margins slip. It takes your builder to break his leg, which happened to me on my project your margins slip. So, yeah, it's basically developers up until now have taken the risk and they're not willing to share the reward and, to be fair, I don't really blame them.

Dionne Payn: 18:27

You know there's a bit of a character of developers and some of them are complete, not very nice people and just focused on the profit. However, what I want to say is that I don't blame developers for not wanting to share the profit, because they've taken all the risk, and it's a big risk and any project can just take them out. But what happens if we share that risk? So we share that risk with the government, we share that risk with philanthropy. We share that risk with everyday investors, not just the wealthy, everyday investors. We share that risk with the investors, not just the wealthy, everyday investors. We share that risk with the developers as well, so that everybody gets to benefit. And that is the way that you provide affordable and sustainable homes that people feel good about being in, and and then the tenants get to benefit from that as well, because everybody's like developers are not trying to extract the last little bit, and so that the tenants are the ones that end up falling short yeah.

Beverley Glazer: 19:24

So basically that feeling when you have a home that you can call your own, you feel so very empowered. And what can you do to tell people women in, who couldn't imagine that they wouldn't be paying rent that they actually have this ground, that this is theirs, they own it and they're putting money down? How can you advise them to start saving or to realize, even with their minimal savings or perhaps an inheritance or something that they can start, that there is promise there? What can you tell them?

Dionne Payn: 20:10

There's a graph that I saw recently and it talks about house prices. So I'll just do this. So you've got wage growth on this angle and then you've got house prices here. So the gap between wage growth and house price increases is just widening and widening, and widening and there's just no way that it's going to come back and come back to an equilibrium. So for my friend who purchased her property for $330,000, she was able to sell that property five years later for $600,000. So that is a $270,000 increase in five years that she would not have got from just working a job.

Dionne Payn: 21:07

That is why property is so transformative and everybody needs to get on this train, I believe, in some way shape or form. So how do you do that? There's lots of different ways. One of things about um growing up in a Jamaican family and a you know sort of church, um church community was that sense of helping each other. And I remember my grandparents when they first arrived from sorry, I don't remember because I wasn't there, but I remember the story of when they came from Jamaica to the UK and they were in a position where they couldn't afford to buy a home. The community worked together to buy the home and then that gave them the opportunity to help somebody else buy the home and the opportunity to help somebody else buy the home, and it was that sharing and that working together that made it work.

Dionne Payn: 21:58

And what I feel is the opportunity in this housing crisis is for that to come back in, for us to be working together to make it work. So I think I look at things like okay, sorry, I just had a bit of a mental black, but I look at things like two sisters, for example, and a mortgage broker that I know was sharing that two sisters came to her. They'd both divorced, both had very little out of the divorce settlement. They came together. They didn't think it was possible, but they came together and they purchased a home and the mortgage broker helped them to do that. So it's that sharing. You know, we've got a generation now where kids cannot move out of home because they cannot get onto the property ladder.

Dionne Payn: 22:50

I think this is a fantastic opportunity to explore intergenerational living where we're not living on top of each other, but we are sharing resources in a space that feels really good for us to be in. So there's, you know, there's, you know, even not even family members coming together, friends coming together, small communities coming together and purchasing land and building something for themselves. So there's so many ways to make it happen. I am very privileged to have come through this development pathway to understand that there are creative strategies to make things work, and so my real mission is sharing that information, expanding people's awareness to what is possible.

Dionne Payn: 23:34

There is the practicality of, yes, you do need money to get started, but it doesn't necessarily need to be your money either, and so there's really creative ways that people can come together and share those resources. For some people it might be time, for some people it might be money, for some people it might be connections, but this is the opportunity that we have to come together and just go. How are we going to make this work? Because the old system is not working. It is dying. It's time for a new system to be born.

Beverley Glazer: 24:06

Awesome, diane, awesome. So the message here and I tell everybody listening is to read Diane Dionne's book. Dionne Payne is the founder and CEO of Women for Housing, a social impact company tackling the root of homelessness for women by creating affordable, sustainable housing with low property investment. Dionne has raised more than $45 billion for ethical developments and has helped over 40 investors earn double-digit returns. She is the number one Amazon best-selling author of ethical development. I'm tripping all over my words, but listen people. Ethical property investing but ethical property investing, by the way, is each individual letter E-T-H-I-C-A-L property investing. And she's also a trailblazing advocate for financial security for women who have been underserved for much too long. Here's some takeaways from this episode long. Here's some takeaways from this episode.

Beverley Glazer: 25:18

Financial empowerment starts with awareness, education and asking questions. Please keep asking for help and face up to your situation powerfully. You can always find a way to rebuild if you believe that you can. If you've been relating to this episode, here are a few actions that you could take right now. Audit your finances, get clear on what you own, what you owe, what you earn and what you spend. Awareness gives you power and don't wait for the system to save you. Take one small step to building your own resources. It's never too late to start now For similar episodes on financial empowerment.

Beverley Glazer: 26:05

Please check out episodes 118 and 134 of Aging with Purpose and Passion. And if you're a caregiver navigating the challenges of caring for a loved one with dementia, I highly recommend that you listen to Fading Memories, a podcast that will give you insights and guidance on communicating and managing stress and navigating grief and loss, and prioritizing your own well-being and the caregiving of your loved one. Fading Memory podcast offers essential tools for anyone facing disability and chronic illness, and please check out the links, because they're also in the show notes. So, Dionne, where can people learn more about you and buy your book?

Dionne Payn: 26:54

Oh, fantastic. Well, the book is available on Amazon and and the. My website is wwwwomen4homescom, and it's so women number four, homescom, and I'm also very active on LinkedIn, so anybody can search my name and and connect with me that way as well.

Beverley Glazer: 27:18

So anybody can search my name and connect with me that way as well. Terrific, Dionne's links are in the show notes and they'll also be on my site, too. That's reinventimpossiblecom. And so, my friends, what's next for you? Are you just going through the motions or are you living the life that you truly love? Please get my free guide to go from stuck to unstoppable, and guess where that is. That's in the show notes, too. You can connect with me, Beverly Glazer, on all social media platforms and in my positive group on women on Facebook, that is Women Over 50 Rock, and thank you for listening. Have you enjoyed this conversation? Please subscribe to help us spread the word by dropping a review and sending it out to a friend. And remember you only have one life, so live it with purpose and passion.

Speaker 1: 28:18

Thank you for joining us. You can connect with Bev on her website, reinventimpossiblecom and, while you're there, join our newsletter Subscribe so you don't miss an episode. Until next time, keep aging with purpose and passion and celebrate life.