Speaker 1: 0:07

Welcome to Aging with Purpose and Passion, the podcast designed to inspire your greatness and thrive through life. Get ready to conquer your fears. Here's your host psychotherapist, coach and empowerment expert, Beverly Glazer.

Beverley Glazer: 0:38

What if your brain was wired for joy but stress was blocking the signal? Welcome to Aging with Purpose and Passion, the podcast for women in midlife and beyond who live on their own terms. Each week, you'll hear powerful conversations, challenging stories and get practical tools to help you ignite your own fire. I'm Beverley Glazer, a reinvention catalyst for women who are ready to raise the bar in their own life, and you can find me on reinventimpossiblecom. Dr Laurel Mellin is a health psychologist and New York Times bestselling author. During the 40 years as a professor of medicine at the University of California, she developed emotional brain training. That's EBT rewiring trauma, circuits of joy and purpose. Dr Laurel Millen trains health professionals in EBT, conducts research in EBT and uses it in her private practice. In this episode, she'll reveal the tools to rewire your brain and reclaim your natural state of joy. So keep listening. Welcome, laurel.

Dr. Laurel Mellin: 1:50

What a joy to be here. Beverley, Thanks for inviting me.

Beverley Glazer: 1:54

Laurel, your father's struggle with diabetes had a huge impact on you. Take us back to that time.

Dr. Laurel Mellin: 2:03

Well, my father. I was very much in love with my father. We were very much alike genetically. He really understood me, he really connected with me and he had this terrible problem with diabetes. It was extremely what we called brittle, so he would end up on the floor at times and I would need to bring him a glass of orange juice to get him up, and I saw him suffer so much that I wanted to help. I mean, I wanted to help him.

Dr. Laurel Mellin: 2:35

My mother was actually depressed and I was sort of the good girl and the one that was coming forward with lots of good ideas and I really got hooked at a very young age in stopping suffering. I saw my father suffer and I wanted to stop that and little did. I know that suffering is actually part of life. It's those moments of suffering and what we do with them that define who we really are. But I became a nutritionist before I realized it really wasn't about nutrition. Nutrition is important but it's really biochemical that effectively, if you're in stress, you're going to be having one addiction or another, one chronic disease or another and mental health problems. And I switched over to beginning to look at the stress response and how we could rewire it to create joy.

Beverley Glazer: 3:30

Right, right. But it led you from that girl who was taking care of her dad to that girl at 21 who got married really early and began to study nutrition. And so what was going? During those days you were trying to help your dad. I'm sure you were interested in nutrition. I mean, I got into mental health for pretty well the same reason. There was schizophrenia in my family. I was curious about that. You know like we all come from somewhere. So you went and seriously studied nutrition.

Dr. Laurel Mellin: 4:08

I did, in part because I had my own eating disorder. I was really addicted to sugar. I was also addicted to body size. I judged my body for not being perfect, so I had multiple sources of addiction related to food. And because of that I was curious, because the current methods simply were not working. And so I began, because I was fortunate enough to have a position at the university and I was in nutrition at the time, even though I knew I was going to I didn't know at the time I was going to go into health psychology, but I knew it wasn't working.

Dr. Laurel Mellin: 4:47

And so I began to look into the medical literature and discovered that a little lady named Hilda Brooke, in 1940, who was probably 90 pounds, sopping wet, and she's this little bit of a woman who, at Baylor College of Medicine, started doing research that showed that the root cause of overeating was actually a disconnection emotionally in the family. And what that said to me is well, that's not a problem, because essentially I'll teach emotional tools to families and see what happens. And what happened was something beyond my wildest dreams, which is they actually changed. You know those of us in research we try different things, we build them on the science, but most things don't work. But all of a sudden, these simple emotional tools that became emotional brain training were changing not only the children's habits and their mood, but changing the family system. So people were emotionally connecting with others and really getting relief from a lot of chronic diseases and mental health problems.

Dr. Laurel Mellin: 5:56

The issue was I had no idea why it was working. But the good news was this one woman you know how one person can change your life. But the good news was this one woman, you know how one person can change your life. This mother came up to me and said my daughter was binging on food, was stealing money from my purse so that she could get that food that she needed, and now, since she's been using these emotional tools, she just wants to go out and play. Whatever you did for her, do for me.

Dr. Laurel Mellin: 6:24

And we began moving EBT to the adult population. Still at that time I knew I would be a bad person if I didn't do the diligence and dedicate my career to finding out what was the root cause of that person's transformation from being stressed and miserable to being connected and enjoy. It would take 25 years before the research actually showed what was going on in her brain, but finally it showed. And what happened at that point is EBT became available for all kinds of problems, from depression and anxiety and trauma to addiction and overweight. So it took a time, but it was worth it.

Beverley Glazer: 7:07

Now we do understand about the brain, but way back then people must have just rejected all of your ideas.

Dr. Laurel Mellin: 7:17

Well, I was fortunate in some ways in that I was a woman and at a time when the university was really held accountable for how they were treating women, and so otherwise I would have been long gone, because my ideas were not consistent with this party line about changing your behaviors and taking medications.

Dr. Laurel Mellin: 7:37

But they had to do something with me, so they tolerated me. They tolerated me, but it was really hard because I knew all of that time that I was not accepted, that they couldn't gracefully get rid of me and they could have me be on the clinical faculty instead of the paid faculty. They could move me around, but they couldn't easily get rid of me, and so I stayed in that appointment for more than 40 years one way or the other, but it wasn't pleasant and it wasn't easy. It required a tremendous amount of commitment. What I was committed to is I knew that I had happened to get onto something, that these tools were changing people in ways that we didn't fully understand, and I believe that being part of the university would be very important to its eventual acceptance, and it has been.

Beverley Glazer: 8:27

Sure. So you're looking to find joy and you're realizing the joy was something that was neurological, something that we change in our brain. It's something that allows us to take care of ourselves better, eat better, not have the addictive personality, as they call it. But Throughout your life, there wasn't always joy either. So here you are going to the university, working on this and yet going through a divorce, taking care of children. How did you manage your own joy during that period?

Dr. Laurel Mellin: 9:08

I think there's only really one way to do it To understand that when you feel terrible, when you feel all is lost, when you feel like there is no hope, to have something in the back of your mind from brain science that says under stress is joy, our very nature is joy. All of us have these beautiful emotional brains that if we just emotionally clear the stress, it doesn't listen to thoughts, emotionally process the stress. It brings us right back to a state of such connection, such beautiful, flowing, healing chemicals, that in fact we're just happy to be alive. So under stress there is joy. But also knowing that when we're in the worst moments of stress, the stress response is so powerful that we will feel like there is no hope. And that's part of the stress response. And all we need to do is hold on just a little bit and go through a process that in emotional brain training we call a transcendence tool. A transcendence tool and it really functions in accord with our very nature, which is to be in joy and to learn from our adversity.

Dr. Laurel Mellin: 10:26

When, for example, one time I was in bed it was midnight I had just, you know, worked all day and all night and I was. Nothing was going well, the research was going poorly, our nonprofit was doing poorly, our service nothing was really working. And I was in tears, I was just sobbing buckets and I sobbed, and I sobbed, and I sobbed and then I connected to the deepest part of myself and I said I give up, it's not my way, it's thy way. I'm going to open my hand to the spiritual, I'm going to appreciate that I'm going to be part of something that's more and I'm here to be of service. And then something shifts and you can see expansively that we are part of something much beyond ourselves. And then we do the logical thing because now we're of purpose.

Dr. Laurel Mellin: 11:28

And for me I said and I need help. And since that time that transcendence tool has become part of EBT so that when you release over control experience being part of something more, and then ask for help, it always comes. It either comes within a few nanoseconds and definitely within one day. It just happened for me this week. It just happened for me this week. That is a process in the brain, because we're basically spiritual creatures and our survival is based in clearing the stress, opening our mind to something new so our circuits can change, and getting back to our natural state of joy and purpose.

Beverley Glazer: 12:13

I love that you said that, because here you are a scientist and a lot of people would say joy, that's so woo-woo. You know? I don't think so. You're now doing academic research. Did anybody say you know dr laurel mellon? I'm not so sure about her.

Dr. Laurel Mellin: 12:36

Well, more people have said that than I can even imagine. I'll tell you two quick stories. One of them is from a scientific standpoint, antonio Damasio, who's a very respected neuroscientist in 2000. One of the stories is really about neuroscience, which is there's this wonderful man named Antonio Damasio, who is a renowned neuroscientist, and in 2003, he wrote in the scientific literature that it was no longer advisable to get to a mediocre, peaceful mood state. You had to get to joy, because joy signals optimal biochemistry and ultimately, psychology is biochemical. It all comes down to electricity and to chemicals. So that changed the idea of joy from being positive psychology to having these emotions of joy. Positive psychology, to having these emotions of joy signify optimal biochemistry, which is what we all need.

Dr. Laurel Mellin: 13:44

But the issue is that some of the times were worse than others, and one of the times I most remember was when I had just done a series of really well-received talks for social workers nationally and I was invited yet again to give another one. This one was going to be bigger, this was going to be 800 people, and so during the middle of the night, before the talk was in the morning, it was on Zoom, and I get this experience in a dream I feel like there's wood all around me and there something holding me. And then this voice appears. And the voice is says um, do not quit. I thought, do not quit. I'm about to have one of the greatest talks of my life.

Dr. Laurel Mellin: 14:34

And then the voice came again and said and be proud of yourself. And then the voice came again and said and be proud of yourself. So the next morning I wake up, I'm all ready to go in front of the and going, and someone arrives and says oh we, we didn't tell you this, but your program has not been accepted for continuing education, and so everyone was told that that's the case and we don't expect 800 people. We'll be lucky to have eight. So my belief is in that if you stay connected to the deepest part of ourselves, our very spiritual core, and ask for help, that we will be protected and guided both ask for help, that we will be protected and guided both.

Beverley Glazer: 15:24

Well, that definitely was a learning experience. Let me ask you, tell me about that five-point EBT system.

Dr. Laurel Mellin: 15:35

Okay, so what's so surprising is that the more I learned about neuroscience and the more the science became more robust, the simpler emotional brain training became. It became so simple that I still, to this day, am astonished, because there are only five levels of stress in the brain. Low stress the top of the brain is in charge, and all your happy memories, and then it goes downhill from there all the way to two, feeling good, and then at three, four and five, you're in trouble. At five, the reptilian brain's in charge and you're biochemically careening out of control. So that means to completely control your biochemistry, naturally without medications. You only need five skills. You need to know what stress number you're in and then use the corresponding emotional processing tools. For that it's on an app. Anyone can use it. But the real beauty is that, no matter which of those five tools you use, the brain itself, with its beautiful resiliency pathways, will take you back to joy.

Beverley Glazer: 16:43

That was so easy, and today we have an app and so we can monitor this like we could monitor everything else. So the brain responds and we go back to joy, and you found joy in your life on matchcom.

Dr. Laurel Mellin: 17:02

Oh my gosh, I had been alone for 12 years and you know I love my work. I mean, I have to tell you I love my work. I get so much joy from it. And I started to think about my children because they were grand ground and I thought well, you know what's going on with them? They think they have this mother at home working herself, silly, and you know what? I don't want to be that person. I don't want to be that person.

Dr. Laurel Mellin: 17:27

I don't know if I want to have a relationship again, but I do know that I'm not going to hide commitment to myself that every Tuesday night I would scrounge out somebody from matchcom who would be willing to go and meet me for a cup of coffee or a drink or something like that. And what happened in that moment? Is I committed to Tuesday nights after I saw my last patient, to meeting up with this person. And on the fourth time that I did this, the fourth date meeting up with this person and on the fourth time that I did this, the fourth date, I met the love of my life. And I looked at him. He looked at me.

Dr. Laurel Mellin: 18:11

He started opening up and this is not a person that opens up a lot. He starts telling me his life story. I started feeling he reminded me a lot of my father, who I was a caretaker of at the time, and I just felt so safe with him and so loved by him. And the rest is history. However, I know for sure if I didn't have the EBT tools, I would have messed it up. And the reason is, like everyone, he's got his dark side. I've got my dark side, but I learned to get to joy and to make the decision not to judge, to set really good boundaries and to allow myself to love more deeply, and that changed my life. It changed my children's life because they saw me happily coupled.

Beverley Glazer: 19:04

I know for sure that I've learned more in that relationship because of my love for him and his love for me and felt more of the spiritual connection than I've ever felt before. Beautiful. What can you tell someone, though, that's listening and says I don't know, I've suffered trauma, I have stress and you're telling me to find joy from an act? What could you tell someone that's listening that's skeptical?

Dr. Laurel Mellin: 19:22

On the day you were born you had all the inherent strength, goodness and wisdom you would ever need to solve any problem and clear any trauma. The trauma itself, even though we wouldn't look for it, is essentially pre-joy. The people you feel really sorry for are people who have led the charmed life. They will never know the depth of compassion and empathy that you will know. All you have to do is just for a moment appreciate that your biology is set up for joy. Science shows that you just need to step over that thinking brain barrier that we get into thinking too much. Get into that beautiful emotional brain with those wonderful resiliency pathways and go slow and just, step by step, create tiny minutes of joy, tiny minutes of joy that give you all those healing chemicals and begin to encroach on the trauma.

Dr. Laurel Mellin: 20:25

You start with EBT by collecting joy points. It just takes one minute and there's seven ways to do it. And then you get bored with that and you say I want to spiral up out of stress through my emotional pathways. And then you do that. And then you get bored with that and you say I want to go into that trauma and actually kind of break it up a little bit. It's just emotional clutter and you rewire circuits until your brain is happily going back to joy automatically, still going through all five brain states, because we need that stress. It's what disrupts whatever circuits are there and makes us happier and healthier and more joyful. But you don't stay stuck in it anymore because your brain has established a new habit. The brain changes with experience. Just start wherever you are and keep it fun, because if it's not fun, the brain won't do it and it's not EBT.

Beverley Glazer: 21:16

Thank you. Thank you, laurel. Dr Laurel Mellin is a health psychologist and New York Times bestselling author. During her 40 years as a professor of medicine at the University of California, she developed emotional brain training, ebt rewiring trauma into the circuits of joy and purpose. She trains health professionals in EBT, conducts research in EBT and has a private practice in the method. Here are a few takeaways from this episode. Your brain is wired for joy. Stress is just blocking the pathways. Joy is not random. It's a brain skill that you can practice and you can strengthen and you can rewire those old trauma circuits. They don't need to define your future.

Beverley Glazer: 22:11

If you've been relating to this episode, here are a few quick actions that you could do right now. Take one minute, one minute pause and breathe deeply, and this may shift your awareness. Find one micro joy some music or a scent or a memory and savor it fully. And practice small, consistent, daily resets to build a resilient brain. For a previous episode on discovering joy, check out episodes 116 and 139 of Aging with Purpose and Passion. And if you're navigating the complex journey of caring for a loved one with dementia, fading Memories is a podcast that offers clear, compassionate guidance on everything from communication to managing stress and coping with grief, and that link will be in the show notes below. And so, laurel, where can people find you and learn more about you and learn about everything, all the works that you do and the apps and everything? Please share your links.

Dr. Laurel Mellin: 23:19

There is one central place to visit, which is EBT like emotional brain training, also like food stamps ebtorg and there it's a hub internationally for getting the app, which is essential because there's 23 different steps in this pathway and you need to be guided through it. But also community love support, coaching groups, because it has to stay fun and exciting, so it would be EBT. There are books, but essentially the app is really at our website because we only release it when you have the support to make it really effective, so it would be ebtorg terrific.

Beverley Glazer: 24:03

That link dr laurel's link is in the show notes as well, and it's going to be on my site too. That's reinventedpossiblecom. And so, my friends, what's next for you? Are you just going through the motions or are you living the life that you truly love? Get my free guide to go from stuck to unstoppable, and that's also in the show notes, too. You can connect with me, Beverley Glazer, on all social media platforms and in my positive group of women on Facebook. That's #Women Over 50 Rock. And thank you for listening. Have you enjoyed this conversation? Please subscribe. Help us spread the word by dropping a review and sending it to a friend, and remember you only have one life, so live it with purpose and passion.

Speaker 1: 24:58

Thank you for joining us. You can connect with Bev on her website, reinventimpossiblecom and, while you're there, join our newsletter Subscribe so you don't miss an episode. Until next time, keep aging with purpose and passion and celebrate life.