Announcer: 0:06

Welcome to Aging with Purpose and Passion, the podcast designed to inspire your greatness and thrive through life. Get ready to conquer your fears. Here's your host, psychotherapist, coach, and empowerment expert, Beverley Glazer.

Beverley Glazer: 0:33

What if the clearest revelation that you've ever had was when you looked into the eyes of a horse. That's right. A horse. Welcome to Aging with Purpose and Passion. I'm Beverley Glazer, a catalyst for women who are ready to raise the bar in their own lives. And you can find me on reInventimpossible.com. Sue Willoughby is the founder of Willoughby Coaching, where she helps break through personal barriers to the practice of equivalent coaching. Drawing from her background in corporate training, real estate, and a lifelong bond with horses, Sue blends deep awareness with practical tools for growth. Her personal story is one of grit, reinvention, and healing. And you'll discover a fresh perspective and a new sense of what's possible for you if you keep listening. You're welcome.

Sue Willoughby: 1:35

Beverly, thank you so much for the introduction. And I loved how you talked about, you know, looking into the eyes of a horse because it is very, very powerful.

Beverley Glazer: 1:46

I know. I've seen that. It's wonderful. Take us back though, because I don't think of you as growing up on a farm. You lived in upstate New York. What was your childhood like back then?

Sue Willoughby: 2:01

Yeah, I did grow up in upstate New York. Um, my parents divorced fairly young. You know, they stayed together for the good of the child. That's not a that's not a thing for people who are listening. Yeah. Uh and I chose to go live with my mom, and um, she was a pretty severe alcoholic. Um, and you know, but that was my choice. I just chose to go with her. I I chose to stay in New York. And um, but horses have always been kind of a thread for me. I remember as a little kid going to bed early, you know, and the lights aren't, you know, it's still daylight out. And I'm, of course, I'm not in bed. I'm staring out my back window. And we lived in sort of a rural community at that time. And there were two horses drinking out of the my kiddie pool in the backyard. And I was like, I thought all my dreams had come true. I'm like, yes, I have horses now. My parents are like, no, go back to bed. They just escaped from the neighbor's property. Um, but I was always begging for, you know, riding lessons and stuff, and we didn't have much money. I mean, we didn't have a lot of money. So, you know, I would go to the barn, I'd beg my mom to, you know, upstate New York. We had a lot of snow, three feet of snow. I'm like, take me to the barn. I just want to be there all day. I want to be with the big fuzzy horses and, you know, smell their grain and sniff their breath and all that kind of stuff. And I didn't realize why that was so important to me. I just loved being around them. They made me feel good. Um, you know, I would get on any horse and like ride off into the woods by myself. You know, I just didn't care. And it just felt so good and so real to me. Fast forward, we moved to Connecticut and barely out of the car. The apartment complex we were living in, or that we were going to be living in, was right across the street from a riding stable. So, of course, I ran across the street, begged the guy to let me muck stalls for the you know, the privilege of riding, and you know, he did, and then he'd get me little project horses to work on, and it was great. Uh, so they've always been a thread in in my life. Um, I later went on to work in um answered an ad in my late teens, early twenties uh for a camp for special needs individuals in to be part of their horseback riding program. I didn't know what therapeutic riding was at the time, but it was amazing. And I would do it summer after summer, quit my job, go to summer camp for peanuts, uh, just for the pleasure to be around horses. So that was just that's kind of the a little bit of the backstory. Right, right.

Beverley Glazer: 4:32

But it was a struggle before you got to that. A big struggle. And so the horse was something that really gave you solace and and and you know, from your life because you ended up quitting high school twice, not once, but twice.

Sue Willoughby: 4:50

Funny you should bring that up. Yes. I just I don't know if it's, you know, I mean, the way I grew up or whatever, but I mean, I'm not a stupid person. I was bored in school. I just did not connect. I didn't connect with it. Um, I loved art, I loved the art classes, so I'd skip my other classes and I'd either, you know, I'd be in the art room. I'd art teachers like, what are you still doing here? I'm like, I have free time. A lot of free time. But yeah, I quit in my junior year and then I went back in my senior year and found out I needed like four credits in gym because I never went to gym either. And uh I was like, yeah, nope, I'm out of here. So I actually got my GED before my real class graduated.

Beverley Glazer: 5:38

So stupid you were not. No, just not at all. Yeah. Not challenged. Not exactly, and that's for many children, unfortunately. Yes. Okay, you came out at 17. And did you finally feel that you belonged now, that you could claim it to the world?

Sue Willoughby: 5:58

I mean Yeah, I wish that were the case. I you know, I did and I didn't. I mean, I I I had known for I think forever, you know, crushes on my third grade teacher and you know, my friends and all of that stuff. Um, but coming coming out, and then I was like, okay, great, now I have to figure out how I fit into this new community. And I and now I feel like another outsider. So I felt like an outsider in the real world. I felt an outsider in the in the queer community. Um, you know, so I started bartending and DJing, and that was kind of my in-road, not the best choice, but still it got me, you know, I tend to immerse myself in things um in weird subcultures a lot of times, like roller derby, uh, another story. But um, but that was kind of the way that I went about it. You know, it wasn't the healthiest way to do that, spending a lot of time in bars and so forth.

Beverley Glazer: 6:55

But then again, you were only 17. Exactly. Yeah. You know. And you spoke also about struggling and attempted suicide. I mean, you really went through deep, dark rabbit holes. I did. Yeah. Uh what was the turning point?

Sue Willoughby: 7:12

I wish I could say it was attempted suicide, but it wasn't. That was just uh it wasn't, I don't think, it wasn't that I wanted to die. I just didn't know how I want how I could live and how I could go move forward. Literally, I was, you know, probably 18, 19, and um I had been in love with my first girlfriend, and that ended, and I just it was I was devastated, and it was just it was a really just dark time. I was drinking a lot, I was partying very heavily. So you're not having clear thoughts around that. Um, but my turning point or my pivotal point was gosh, uh, not until I hit my 30s, I'd say. Um my mid-30s. Uh, I met someone and I was living in New Haven, Connecticut at the time, and I uh they were moving across country. We hadn't been together that long. Uh, they were moving across country and asked me if I wanted to join. And I'm like, um, I have nothing here keeping me here. So I said yes, and it was the best thing that ever happened to me. Um, I was now in a different circle of people and friends uh that were challenging to me uh because you know, a lot of them were Ivy Leaguers and, you know, physicians and, you know, people that I was really intimidated by and but at the same time challenged. And I also got different opportunities uh to go back to school, which I really wanted to do at that point, and um start a new career and explore new opportunities. So it really did change my life.

Beverley Glazer: 9:00

You definitely changed.

Sue Willoughby: 9:01

Yeah.

Beverley Glazer: 9:02

From there, you built a career in tech, you were doing corporate training. And what attracted you to technology and all that, that whole world?

Sue Willoughby: 9:12

Well, you know, it's interesting, uh, Beverly. When I went back to school, I went to a community college, and this was like in the kind of early, early mid-90s, and you know, websites and all of that stuff was just starting to bubble up. And I was always interested in video technology and training and you know, or you know, video production and stuff like that. I used to have an eight millimeter camera that I was always shooting goofy videos on. So that's kind of the media piece of it, was what I was interested in. But that sort of led me into uh web development and media production. So I I did a dual major in in both of those things, um, video production and also like communications and web development. So that was kind of like my in-road. And then, you know, I uh got a job in in high tech as, you know, like a little baby foot in the door kind of uh job. But I was like, oh, this is interesting. I never thought I would be here. I always thought I'd be a retail rat for the rest of my life, which I hated. Uh but that opened the door. And then at that time, tech was growing so much that all of my other skills kind of came in together as well. And I would go on to the next job. And that was when the they'd give you signing bonuses. And all of a sudden I went from you know, $35,000 a year to a six-figure job. And I was like, whoa, okay, not bad for a high school dropout, you know.

Beverley Glazer: 10:40

Well, you weren't by then.

Sue Willoughby: 10:42

Yeah, no, it didn't happen overnight, but over, you know, over the course of my career. So sure. I was, you know, had imposter syndrome too. I'm like, okay, when are they gonna realize it?

Beverley Glazer: 10:53

You know, sure, sure. But but it takes a while after you start, you know, not feeling much of a person to all of a sudden be a respected person and in industry among people that not only respect you, but you respect them. And it takes a while to get comfortable with that. And you did so many things to earn accolades like flying planes, Sue. I mean, this is this is something, right? Yeah, flying planes, stand-up comedy, you know, roller derby referee, no less. Okay. Tell us about that. How did you just go in for every single challenge?

Sue Willoughby: 11:40

I love a good challenge, clearly. Um, I just I like to go through life curious. And um, I think, you know, like I was talking about when I was a kid, I think I probably had undiagnosed ADHD. I don't know, but I am always if something pops up, I'm like, that is interesting. Let me check that out. And like I said, I do tend to do a deep dive into whatever little weird subculture or something. Like, for example, when I got my somebody gave me a um flying lesson for my birthday. Okay, that was fun. Okay, now I want to really want to take flying lessons and get my license. And then, of course, I'm not gonna release a plane because that would be stupid. I'm just gonna buy one. Okay, well, so I found a couple of partners and we bought a plane. You know, that's the kind of deep dive I do. Uh, roller derby came into my life. I I used to watch roller derby as a kid. I was Saturday mornings, I was glued to the TV, you know, watching the Bay City bombers and you know, those women flipping around the rails, and it was awesome. And my um landscaper was uh, she's like, hey, I'm also a roller derby. Uh I also do roller derby if you ever wonder. I'm like, yeah, I want to come watch. So then, of course, I, you know, volunteered for the the scoring team, and I'm like, no, I want to get out there and skate. And I'm like, I'm a little too old to be doing that. But being a referee, you kind of get to skate around the center and watch everything and and not not get hurt too badly. So I did that. I mean, I'm serious. It's just, I like to be curious. Um, I got into cycling. I met a friend of mine when I was in uh college, uh community college, and did the trained to do the California AIDS ride, which was from San Francisco to LA. And seven-day ride, that was a big deal. Um, and I had never done that before. I barely rode my bike around the block. So yeah. Yeah, yeah. I love challenges. I love to learn new things. Yeah.

Beverley Glazer: 13:38

And another huge challenge is stand-up comedy. I mean, that's raw. So when did you realize that you don't he had something to say, something people would laugh at?

Sue Willoughby: 13:50

Well, uh, I don't know, I don't know. I've always been I being an only child, I entertained myself a lot. And I think that my sense of humor got me through a lot of my dark times. And I always was, you know, cutting the fool in school and and just being making people laugh. I love to make people laugh. So I when I was doing, I was taking some acting classes, and then there was a stand-up comedy class, and I'm like, sure, I'll do that. I think it would be fun. And you know, I'd go to open mics and it was mortifying. So yeah. But it, you know, and it's funny because now I think, you know, I was also really self-conscious at the time I was doing it. And not all comedians are self-conscious, all comedians are self-deprecating, all comedians are have, you know, uh imposter syndrome and are think that they're not worth anything. I mean, you know, that's where the comedy comes from. But I think now that I have a little bit more sense of myself and emotional intelligence and confidence, it would be interesting to go back and try it again and see how, you know, how things work out. But it was one more thing that just added to my confidence or whatever. I mean, it was just really it was a it was a good experience. Did I want to do it forever? No, I don't want to be a you know comedy club rat.

Beverley Glazer: 15:10

And you didn't want to be in technology forever either.

Sue Willoughby: 15:14

No, I, I didn't want to be in corporate America forever. I love technology still to this day, and I do embrace it on a daily basis. Um, but I just didn't want to be in corporate America anymore. Um, my last corporate stint was with a big aircraft manufacturer, and it was I was in uh flight training, and um it was pretty, it sounds sexy, but you know, it's still corporate America. And I just couldn't go into that gray office every day and I couldn't do it anymore. So I literally jumped out of an airplane, uh, which I said I would never do, having been a pilot. Uh and I went I went skydiving with a bunch of my real estate uh friends, and that was it. I'm like, that's it, I quit. So I walked away from a very lucrative six-figure career to go into real estate.

Beverley Glazer: 16:06

And now let's talk about ecotherapy. Equivalent coaching and horses. Tell us about that. How did you get into that from real estate, or are you still in real estate? And this is just what you also do to help people. What is this about?

Sue Willoughby: 16:26

Yeah, that's a good question. Um, I am still a licensed real estate agent in the state of Washington. Um, I also teach real estate. Um, I've recently developed a course for real estate agents to start their own podcast because I think it's a really important way for them to get their marketing message out there. So with the real estate, I'm moving into more of a coaching, mentoring, training kind of a role. So once again, getting back to my roots in that uh and you know, working with young agents to help them, you know, start to get their careers off the ground. Yeah. Um, but and the horse coaching came into, I think I told you that I was in, I had done therapeutic riding. Um, I did it for a number of years uh after moving to Washington State and at a little bit therapeutic riding. And I did that for a number of years in their volunteer program and helped train their volunteers, work with the horses. And I didn't want to be a riding instructor uh in that capacity. So I got, I wanted to be with the horses. My heart is really with them, and I wanted to support them because they do so much work to support humans that I went into I get certified in equine massage therapy and specifically structural integration, which is like Rolfing for horses. Um and that kind of led me, like I said, I'm always eyes wide open, curious about things. Um the somehow working with horses in a coaching capacity came into my sphere of awareness. And I reached out to someone at this, at the time it was the COEL Institute uh for uh Equus training, and now it's um Center for Equus Coaching. One of the instructors and one of the mentors was here in Seattle, and I got together, had coffee with him, and about a year later it took me to actually join the program, and it was unfortunately right around the time of COVID. So um we did a lot of our training online and then we had our on-site trainings, and I went through the program uh to become a certified Equis coach, and then I went directly into the master facilitator training to do group coaching. So, you know, corporate coaching, uh, grouped coaching, whether it be retreats, you know, themed retreats or or whatever. Um, but it was just, I knew when I was there, I'm like, this is everything came together, all of those pieces, and all of my love for horses, all of the help that I have received knowingly or unknowingly from them over the years, like this makes complete sense to me to be in this, in this, in this career.

Beverley Glazer: 19:21

Why do you think that horses are so special when it comes to reading people?

Sue Willoughby: 19:25

Oh my God, so much. Uh basically they are at their core, right? They're prey animals. So every cell in their body is about awareness. And they're always curious because it may mean life or death to them. Uh they're also herd animals, so the way that they communicate in their herd through well, sort of verbal, but mostly nonverbal communication, um, is really important. That's also a really good um thing that they do. And then also the fact that they don't judge. So if another horse gives them feedback, like for example, one horse goes over and tries to eat the other horses. Hey, the other horse is like either bites at them, kicks at them, whatever. The offending horse then walks away and says, Okay, I got the message. Thank you very much. I'm I'm clear now. And then they let it go. That's the other thing, is they don't hang on to things. So we do all the time. And there's also some science in there about the kind of like the heart math uh connection, heart math institute, if you're familiar with them, but there is a very deep heart connection. So when you connect with a horse, when you're in their um sphere of awareness, when you're in their being in their in their little bubble, uh, they're connecting with what's inside you, not what you are putting out there to the world, not the facade that you show up with. So they don't care. They don't care what kind of car you drove up in, they don't care what you're wearing, they don't care if you've got $4,000 cowboy boots on so you can look cool at the barn. They're just concerned with, not even concerned, they're they're curious about what you are bringing to their conversation with you. And their conversation is nonverbal. So how you're showing up in relationship, how you're showing up with them in that relationship. And how you show up one place is how you show up everywhere. So they also help you get back into your body because, like I said, every cell in their body is awareness. It's they're constantly taking in information through all of their senses and they're processing it and they're saying, Am I safe? Am I not safe? Do I need to run? What are my herdmates doing? Are they, you know, are they getting riled up or is it just me? And then once they process that information, realize that they're safe, then they can go back to what they were doing, maybe grazing, it may be whatever. So they're just being themselves. And when they're working, when I work with a person and a horse, I'm observing the horse's behavior and how the human is showing up and how they're interacting. And it gives me the opportunity to ask some really valuable coaching questions.

Beverley Glazer: 22:39

I was gonna ask you how you intertwine the coaching with the animal. Yeah. So it's the person that's answering the question, and I'm assuming relating to the horse as they're doing that. What do you think?

Sue Willoughby: 22:57

Yeah. Yes, it's interesting what people will bring to the horse. Um for example, I've seen people, you know, uh sometimes people will set an intention. I want to make sure they're grounded as well. So we'll do a little safety demo. Um, horses are really good at getting you out of your head and into your body because we spend so much time in looping our stories and all of that, right? And then the horse is like, I none of that interests me. I have no idea what you're even thinking about or whatever. I don't care. I just want to know how honest you are with yourself. So they want to know, they see what's inside, not what's on the outside. So you may go into the arena with one intention and realize it's something completely different. Um, I've seen, you know, and so the horse is at liberty. They're not, you're not connected to them in any way. They don't have a halter or lead rope on, they're just wandering around being a horse. Uh and you have the ability to go in and interact with them in however way you feel is authentic to you, or whatever it is that you want to do. Some people may want to get the horse to move around, some people may want to just be stand near the horse or get the horse to be close to them. But I've seen people walk in and if the horse is over in the corner kind of doing something, or if it's an outdoor round pen, they may be trying to get the little pieces of grass that are on the other side of the fence. And I've seen people walk in and go, Oh, they kind of dismiss it, right? The horse doesn't like me. The horse is bored with me. I hear that a lot. The horse doesn't like me, the horse is bored with me. The horse, the horse, the horse. Guess what? Not about the horse. They're transferring all of these things onto this horse that they're experiencing in their real life. That they're they think and they feel that people don't like them, that people are bored with them, people don't want to talk to them, whatever it is. So they're putting that on the horse. It's really interesting. Say, you know, why do you why do you say that? Well, he's standing over there. Well, why do you think he's standing over there? I don't know, he's eating grass. Could that be just what he's doing? Right? He's just being a horse. That's all he's doing. So it's really interesting because a lot of a lot of that stuff, horses are really good also at teaching leadership. They're also really good at teaching boundaries. A lot of people have problems with boundaries. Um, and horses are really good at detecting those things and kind of pushing the buttons in a safe way, usually.

Beverley Glazer: 25:37

Beautiful. And looking into the eyes of the horse, think your reflection in the eyes of the horse. Talk to me about that. That's very special.

Sue Willoughby: 25:47

Yeah, yeah. They are very so their vision, they have almost 360-degree vision. So they only have two blind spots, one right in front of them and one right behind their tail. So when you're moving around them, that you have to be aware of that. But they will turn to look at you, right, with their eye. And when you look at them, I mean you're you're kind of looking into their soul, and they're also looking into yours as well. And like I said, they're connecting with what's going on inside you. They can sense your heartbeat, they can sense your biorhythms, like how you're really feeling. So a lot of times people will come in and they'll just be in the space with the horse and immediately release and start to cry or something because they feel safe, they feel uh understood, they feel supported. And the horse is just being a horse. And when, you know, when you have that facade up, the horse may stay away because the horse is like, I'm not sure. I'm I'm I can't get through that wall. Once that wall evaporates, the horse may come right over and just stand next to you because they know that's what you want. But they will mirror our behavior. So when you say a reflection, sometimes it's not a reflection that we enjoy because they're kind of calling you out on your stuff. So it's an interesting reflection.

Beverley Glazer: 27:17

It is, and it's totally nonverbal. Yeah, yeah. So what final message can you leave to a woman who's stuck and way down in the past?

Sue Willoughby: 27:27

So after all this, yeah, after all this. Um I would say, and this is not an easy thing to do, um, but to be quiet. Just get quiet. And the thing is, when you get quiet, things get really loud. And listen to what comes up and start being curious about the things that you hear and the things that you feel when you're being quiet. And if you can look into the eyes of a horse, it's even better. Um, but just be outside somewhere, try and be quiet. We have so much stimulation in our lives these days, whether it's the news or whatever, our devices and everything. If you can just be quiet for five minutes a day, whether you're meditating or not, if you can just sit quietly, I know it's hard. Things will start to bubble up. And then that can activate your curiosity. Curiosity, awareness, all of those things, you're gonna start to say, Oh my God, there's so many things going on out there that I could experience or that I'm curious about or interested in. And then you can start taking little baby steps to go explore the things that you may have put on the back burner years ago. So that's my advice.

Beverley Glazer: 28:54

Wonderful. Thank you, Sue. Thank you. Sue Willoughby is the founder of Willoughby Coaching, where she helps break through your barriers to discover your own power through the practice of equals coaching. Here's some takeaways from this episode. Your past is just a part of your story, you can change it. Real transformation starts by being in the present. Be silent and change begins. If you've been relating to this story, if you actually see it, you can take it right now. Say yes to something that lets you out of your comfort zone. Ask yourself what belief have you been holding? And that's not you anymore. And start rewriting that whole story. Of that comfort zone. For similar episodes on healing and empowerment, check out episode 132 and 147 of Aging with Purpose and Passion. And you may also enjoy Wellness Wednesdays hosted by gerontologist Sally DuPontier. These pre-recorded seminars are really featuring experts with topics on healthy aging, and that's called MyZing Life. So that's myzinglife.com to learn more. And that link, by the way, is going to be in the show notes too. And so, Sue, what are your links? Where can people find you? Where can they learn more about your wonderful services that you provide? All those links. What are they?

Sue Willoughby: 30:47

Yeah. Um, uh, my website is willoughbycoaching.com. I'm also on Instagram at Sue underscore Willoughby. And those are the two biggest places. I'm also on LinkedIn and some of the other uh places as well, and those links are on my website, but those are the two main places to be able to follow me.

Beverley Glazer: 31:05

Terrific. And that all Sue's links are going to be in the show notes too. That's reinventimpossible.com. And so, my friends, what's next for you? Are you just going through the motions or are you living a life that you truly love? Get my free guide to go from stuck to unstoppable. And where do you think that is? That's in the show notes too. You can connect with me, Beverley Glazer, on all social media platforms and in my positive group of women on Facebook. That's Women Over50 Rock. And I want to thank you for listening. Have you enjoyed this conversation? Please subscribe. Help us spread the word by dropping a review and sending it to a friend. And remember, you only have one life. So live it with purpose and passion.

Announcer: 32:01

Thank you for joining us. You can connect with Bev on her website, reinventimpossible.com. And while you're there, join our newsletter. Subscribe so you don't miss an episode. Until next time, keep aging with purpose and passion. And celebrate life.