Announcer: 0:06

Welcome to Aging with Purpose and Passion, the podcast designed to inspire your greatness and thrive through life. Get ready to conquer your fears. Here's your host, psychotherapist, coach, and empowerment expert, Beverley Glazer.

Beverley Glazer: 0:34

How do you rebuild your life when the job that defined you disappears overnight? Welcome to Aging with Purpose and Passion. I'm Beverley Glazer, a transition coach and catalyst for women who are ready to raise the bar in their own lives. And you can find me on reinventimpossible.com. Cat Greenleaf is the creator and former host of NBC's Emmy Award series, Talk Soup, where she became a familiar face in New York City, taxi TV, and daytime television. She interviewed hundreds of guests over nine years and then lost the job that defined her. But you had to rebuild her life. Today, she's sober and hosts the podcast Soberness, where she talks about recovery with guests in the entertainment industry. Kat Greenleaf founded a nonprofit called the Restorative Housing Organization and helps ex-Convicts to reinvent their lives. Welcome, Cat. Thanks so much for having me. You grew up in Westchester, and that's not far from New York City. What was life like for you growing up? Was there much alcohol going on? Like what was actually going on?

Cat Greenleaf: 2:07

Westchester was an awesome place to grow up. So I'm 53. So, you know, uh my main sentient years there were late 70s into the early 80s. And um there was just so much freedom. You know, it was before Stranger Danger. It was before 9-11, it was before social media. So it was lovely. It was um all based around the water. That was my introduction to life on the water, which has become a very big part of my life now. Uh, and it was great. I used to ride my bike. I really, even then, even as a kid, I knew it was a special place to be. Uh I was my family was on the boring side. No one drank. No one. Uh, I don't even think my parents ever overeat. You know, it was um, they're very controlled. And so it was, I would say it was sort of a nondescript upbringing. Um, except I was feeling uh, let's see, I knew, I just knew I was on my way to becoming a drinker. I couldn't wait. I really couldn't wait. My sister and I used to start sneaking into the liquor cabinet. And so, really, by about 12:13, 12, I was drinking uh on a pretty regular basis with stolen hooch from the basement.

Beverley Glazer: 3:34

Right, right. And and yeah, you knew it was something special for you, and yet you went off to school in LA. So did that continue with drinking? Was there lots of partying going on? Because that's college.

Cat Greenleaf: 3:49

Yes. Well, so I was actually in high school in Los Angeles, and there was um a ton of drinking, uh alcohol and drugs. I mean, it was Beverly Hills, you know, so there was access to everything, and uh I wanted it all. And so it was super fun. Um, and then it wasn't, but it was uh it was the party lifestyle in Los Angeles was was um a mandate almost. Everyone was living that way.

Beverley Glazer: 4:18

And so what about school? Did that interrupt your school life or could you carry it on?

Cat Greenleaf: 4:23

I could do it. I I could do it. I'm I guess a high functioning alcoholic, um, you know, which isn't a good thing, but that's the thing I I am. And so I was able to continue to get great grades, continue to I had a job after school, um, but I just couldn't wait for Friday night.

Beverley Glazer: 4:40

Yeah, you were able to fake it.

Cat Greenleaf: 4:42

Mm-hmm.

Beverley Glazer: 4:43

Yeah, yes. I still feel like I'm faking it. And then you went off um and went to college, and it was very liberal, and you were in the rainforest. And um, tell us about that experience because that's a whole other thing. It's not Beverly Hills.

Cat Greenleaf: 5:04

No. So what happened there was um at the end of my sophomore year, I had my heart broken. And being the dramatic drunk that I am, I vowed I had to leave school and I had to get off this continent because there's just not enough room for all of us. And um, I went, I found a school called Friends World College. It's a Quaker and experiential school that had recently been taken over by Long Island University here in New York. So, under the auspices of LIU, I went off to India for my junior year, where I worked with Mother Teresa and her uh orphanage. And then my senior year, I was in Brazil. I didn't drink or party at all. Those were very serious years for me, and I really uh buckled down.

Beverley Glazer: 5:52

And then, of course, school has to end. School has to end. Yep, and you came back, and you came back to California. So where did radio come in? How did you get involved in media from the rainforest?

Cat Greenleaf: 6:11

I'll tell you, it's a funny thing. I um I got to San Francisco after graduation uh for a job in television. It was uh they were going to do TV about the internet. Okay, so this was 1994. So boring, right? Like TV about the internet, and lo and behold, it didn't take off. So there I was jobless in San Francisco, and uh I really didn't know what I was going to do. I just, you know, that it's a scary period after college, and you're lost, right? You don't know what you're gonna be gonna do. And that was me. I was lost. I was fat, I was drunk, I was singing in a band, I was just, you know, kissing boys, I was really not doing um anything that leads to anything. And then one day it was so crazy. I'm like, what are you doing? And I it's almost like I heard a voice, what do you like? What do you like? And I thought, well, my favorite thing in my day is the Fox, the local Fox affiliates morning show uh called Mornings on Two on KTVU. And so I just called them. I was 27 years old and I just called them and said, Can I come be an intern? And they're like, Well, you're really supposed to have be in school and get credits, but okay. And so I went. And uh my favorite segment was the features in the morning. So I walked up to that producer and said, Hey, can I help you? And she said, sure. And then that started it. And then I really didn't feel smart enough to do like actual news. You know, I I was I didn't understand where the news came from. So I was like, Well, I can read a map, sort of. So let me try to be a traffic reporter. So that started that. And uh, but very quickly I became restless and wanted to do more. So that's when I myself got into features reporting and and that started it all.

Beverley Glazer: 8:01

And what brought you to New York? Because you were doing a fine over there.

Cat Greenleaf: 8:05

Well, so I used to have these um Sabbaths every Friday night. They were open door sabbaths and they were rocking, raging affairs, and I got evicted from my apartment. And um, so I didn't know what to do. I had a dog and a cat and very little money and didn't know what was gonna happen. So I came out to New York because truly I believe once a New York Jew, always a New York Jew. And I knew I was gonna end up back here at some point. So there I was, evicted, um, unclear on next steps. So I thought, let's try it in New York. And so um, thank God there was a traffic job open with my same company. So I was able to transition pretty smoothly, moved right into the West Village, and um and and and I felt like my life got started then.

Beverley Glazer: 8:53

Okay. And so tell us about your program, Talk Stoop. What was that about?

Cat Greenleaf: 9:00

Well, so I um, like I said, I'd been really I started out trying to do hard news, but I kept like throwing in jokes and you know, I realized I wasn't really hard news material. And so I love doing features, and that became my beat. And I went from the little station that I was at to NBC and I was doing features, and then my son was born, my first son. And now my sons are adopted, so it wasn't like I was off with my feet up, but uh I didn't take any time off at all, in fact, because I was so in love with my career. I I it never occurred to me to take time off, but I did want to be near my kid. And Beverly, I my hand to God, the idea sort of hit me on the head wholesale. You're gonna sit on your stoop, you're gonna talk to neighbors, and and that's how it's gonna start. And so I mentioned I walked into the newsroom one morning and I said it, nobody looked up, nobody cared. And so I just started doing it. Really, no one said yes and no one said no, no one said anything. So I just started doing it, and um, it came together pretty magically. Uh Rosie Perez was our first real celebrity, and then Tommy Lee from the band Motley Cruz saw Rosie Perez on the show and told his publicist, I want to be on that show. And that's what started the celebrities. I I only had Rosie on because she lived in my neighborhood. I only thought I'd be talking to neighbors. I didn't know it was gonna turn into what it turned into. Yeah. And it blew up. It blew up. And here's and and besides the fact that I think it was a really great program, um, New York City had introduced televisions in the back of taxis at that time. So everyone had to watch it. It was always on, you know, I was on all the time. Every time you got into a yellow cabin, this was before Uber and this is before cell phones and before YouTube. So, you know, it was really the only game in town if you were gonna ride around and be entertained. And thank God for me, and all the publicists in town would ride in taxis, and they all saw it and they wanted their clients on there. So even though I lived across the river in Brooklyn, which now Brooklyn is very hot, but at the time it's like you needed immunizations, you know, to leave Manhattan and get over to Brooklyn. And but because we were the key to getting in the cabs, everybody came. Everybody came. And that was so cool and weird, you know. And I've never really been like a pop culture celebrity person. So uh not gonna say I didn't know who people were, like I knew people's names, but I didn't like know the the big stories surrounding them. So the conversations got to be really real because I really was asking, like I really didn't know, you know. And um, and then the other thing that worked in our favor, I just think the physical setup of the stoop made people recline, like like um Rosh Hashanah, right? Like you're like you have to recline, and and so that made people comfortable, you know. And there was a baby around because my son had just been born and there were always dogs, and so I think it made people comfortable. You know, now look, I'm sitting at home, you're sitting at home, everyone does their shows from home. But at the time, nobody was doing a show from home, you know, and so it was cool, right?

Beverley Glazer: 12:06

And you were able to take care of your baby and everything, you're right on the step.

Cat Greenleaf: 12:10

Yeah, it was awesome, it was very cool.

Beverley Glazer: 12:13

You did nine years doing these interviews, nine years. You got Emmys, and then what happened?

Cat Greenleaf: 12:23

Well, so I had always been an entrepreneur inside a big company, and that was very hard. Things are so different now in media. Um, at the time it was very regimented, and I wasn't trying to not fit in, I just didn't. I just was doing my own thing, and luck, you know, it was a very lucky situation that it was supported by NBC and USA Network for all that time. And uh somewhere in there, about a year before I lost my job, I started to get very depressed. And um, I was working, you know, 20 hours a day. So I I I was anyway, I start to get very depressed, kind of dissociated a little bit. Um, and you know, I never really got a reason why I lost my job. I was never told. And so I actually don't know. It was it really it took us by surprise, came out of nowhere. Um, I was in a very dark place though, so uh, you know, maybe that led to it. I I really don't know. I was making a lot of money, um, you know, all the things. And uh so yeah, but it but it was not a good moment.

Beverley Glazer: 13:33

No, you lost your job. And did you continue drinking now? You were depressed, no job, no what went on.

Cat Greenleaf: 13:42

No, I actually had already stopped drinking by then. Um I was not drinking, it had been years, but uh but when I lost my job, I really did want to drink again. I didn't know how to cope with something so devastating. Um, you know, I did have a was it kalanapin or I some you know great prescription. Uh that was awesome and that helped me out, but uh I probably became too dependent on that too because I love to check out, I love to not feel. And so I was looking for anything uh to help me not feel, but I did not go back to drinking because honestly, I just didn't want the hassle of starting over again. Um getting sober is really hard, and I didn't want to do it again.

Beverley Glazer: 14:30

And what about soberness now? When did that idea come to you? Soberness.

Cat Greenleaf: 14:35

Well, what happened was so okay, so lost my job. We were living in downtown Brooklyn in a brownstone. We moved out here to Coney Island to the beach, and that was a lifesaver and a game changer. Um and because I was so hurt and devastated, I thought I'll never go back to broadcast. And also I was tired, you know, I'd only ever been a broadcaster. So I was tired, and so I thought I'll never go back to that. And I spent, you know, five, six years casting about, trying to figure out what I could do with the rest of the hours of my life. You know, I'm not even halfway through. What am I gonna do? And um nothing really fit. I had some successes during those years. I built a little nonprofit, I, you know, kept my family going, like it all worked out, but I wasn't me. And I by last April, not this past, but the one prior, I was starting to lose my mind being not me. And I just didn't, I don't know, it never occurred to me that I could go back to work in broadcast. And my husband finally was like, Well, if you're missing it, let's just do this. And I was like, Oh, we can just do this. And then a couple of very fortuitous things happened. People were sort of thrown in my path to remind me who I was and what I do. And I was like, Oh, okay, then. And the the world had totally changed. Like I was like Rumpel Stilskin. I came to the beach and went to sleep. In the meantime, people were on YouTube and podcasts were happening. And it's like, oh, I don't need to go knock on the doors of some white asshole men in suits who are gonna tell me how hard it's gonna be to get back on TV. You know, I didn't have to do that, and I could just uh start a show. And so, okay, I didn't know what what that would even look like. And then I ran into a couple of the celebs that I had known from my earlier show, and they were sober and they were talking about it. And I was like, well, if they're talking about it, why not talk about it with me? And that's what happened, and we just kicked it off.

Beverley Glazer: 16:25

Awesome.

Cat Greenleaf: 16:25

And you do this in a hotel, yes, the Algonquin, the Algonquin Hotel. So this is another uh miraculous story. So, right when we so living in Coney Island is like living in Ontario. I mean, it is far from the city. For me, I look at it as a 35-minute commute, it is no big deal. But to Manhattanites, this is the Netherlands. Yes, it is. So I um I didn't know quite what I was gonna do, and I didn't want to do everything remote. I really like to be in person. And as luck would have it, fate threw a former college drinking buddy of mine into my path. And it turns out he is now also sober, and he's the manager of the Algonquin Hotel. So when I teed up the idea of the podcast, he said, do it here. And that was it. And and we started uh our first guest, or we we launched our first episode September 29th, and I know that date because it is my sobriety date.

Beverley Glazer: 17:22

Ah, perfect, perfect timing. What about that nonprofit to help former inmates? How did that come about?

Cat Greenleaf: 17:30

So living on the beach, especially in New York City, is crazy. And uh, you know, we were here through COVID. We uh the the ocean helped heal me, there is no question. And one day I was sitting out there as I like to do on the rocks, just singing and praying and having the best time. And I looked to my right and I looked to my left, and there's like no people, and it is the most gorgeous thing. And I said, God, it cannot just be for me. How do I share it? And once again, the idea came restorative housing. I know a lot about the little weird, watery communities in New York because I've made it my business to drive around to each and every one. I love them so much. And it occurred to me what I could do is find undervalued waterfront properties in these weird little communities, um, hire formally incarcerated people to live on the property for the life of the project and uh train and learn how to renovate, help me renovate these properties because none of them are in great shape. And then when that's done, we make them available to government subsidized uh housing. So people who have a voucher for government subsidized housing, it's called Section 8 in the States, um, they are eligible to live in our houses. So we have the only waterfront housing in all of New York City, and um we have three single moms, each who have four kids, uh living on the water in New York City with their vouchers. So uh the way I like to call it a virtuous circle, it's you know, for every dollar we spend, we're protecting some of New York City's coastline. We are uh housing and employing formerly incarcerated people, and then we're allowing other people to live on the water every day of their lives. So um, you know, look, I'm just so white, guilty, and Jewish. Like I just I'm guilty about everything. And so I felt like I couldn't have this incredible living situation and not share it. Uh, I wish it was out of like a more altruistic, but really it's out of uh guilt. I just I didn't feel worthy of living here on the water.

Beverley Glazer: 19:36

That's wonderful. What would you tell someone who lost everything and really feels they have no hope getting back out?

Cat Greenleaf: 19:45

The only way out is through. Meaning you are not going to skirt the issue. I mean, it took me a long time, Beverley. I went through several stages of healing. I had a lot of healing I needed to do. Do and then five, six years in, I could start healing the most recently devastating stuff, which was my job. So to others, I would say, yeah, you're gonna go through it. Even if you've got another job tomorrow, let's say it's your job that you lose, or let's say it's your marriage and you start dating someone the next day. You can't outrun the grief. You can't outrun the the trauma. I mean, I hate using that word because it's everywhere, but it's true. And so my advice would be just chop wood, carry water, keep going every day. And some days, if you can't get out of the bed, that's fine. Don't get out of the bed. As long as you're uh not hurting anybody, and hopefully not yourself, take those dark days because they're gonna come, whether you want them or not. Uh, you know, and grief is the worst. When you lose everything, it's you're mourning, you're grieving, you're terrified if it's there's a financial aspect, you know, so nothing good about it except like coming out of it because now I I can do anything. My biggest fear was losing my job. It wasn't anything with my family, it wasn't my health, it was losing my job. And now I have been through the worst thing that could have happened to me that I thought. I'm sure many more terrible things could be false. Thank God they're not. I'm just saying that was my big fear. It took me a long time. It took six years to push through, but it wasn't going to happen any other way.

Beverley Glazer: 21:39

Thank you. Thank you so much, Kat. Kat Greenleaf is the creator and former host of NBC's Emmy Award series, Talk Stoop, and a familiar face in media. Over nine years, she interviewed hundreds of guests and then lost her job and rebuilt her life from the ground up. Today, she hosts the podcast Soberness, where she talks about recovery and she's founded a nonprofit called the Restorative Housing Organization, supporting former convicts to reinvent their lives. Here are a few takeaways from this episode. Losing your job isn't losing your worth. You don't have to bounce back, you can build something new. And rock bottom is a turning point. Your story isn't over because something has ended. If you're relating to this episode, here are a few things you can do for yourself right now. If you're struggling, tell someone honesty opens doors. Volunteer. Helping others can make you feel valued and make a 24-hour promise to yourself. Change begins in small micro shifts. For similar episodes on rebuilding your life from the ground up, check out episodes 98 and 123 of Aging with Purpose and Passion. And the Woman in the Middle podcast, hosted by life coach Susie Rosenstein, helps women in midlife and beyond to navigate change, set goals, and find happiness. And that link is in the show notes. And so, Kat, where can people find you and learn all about you and your projects?

Cat Greenleaf: 23:24

Well, please visit our website at www.soberness.com, s-o-b-e-r-n-e-s-s.com. And then on all the socials, we're soberness podcast and also at Cat Greenleaf. C-A-T-G-R-E-E-N-L-E-A-F.

Beverley Glazer: 23:41

Thanks. Thanks so much, Cat. And if you didn't catch that, all Cat's links are in the show notes and also on my site too. That's reinventimpossible.com. And so, my friends, what's next for you? Are you just going through the motions or are you living a life that you truly love? Get my free guide to empower your life. And where do you think that will be? Hey, it's in the show notes in the description below. You can connect with me, Beverley Glazer, on all social media platforms and in my positive group of women on Facebook. That's Women Over50 Rock. And thank you for listening. Have you enjoyed this conversation? Please subscribe and help us spread the word by dropping the review and sending this out to a friend. And remember, you only have one life, so live it with purpose and passion.

Announcer: 24:39

Thank you for joining us. You can connect with Bev on her website reinventimpossible.com. And while you're there, join our newsletter. Subscribe so you don't miss an episode. Until next time, keep aging with purpose and passion. And celebrate life.