Opening And The Anti-Retirement Premise

Announcer 0:07

Welcome to Aging with Purpose and Passion, the podcast designed to inspire your greatness and thrive through life. Get ready to conquer your fears. Here's your host, psychotherapist, coach, and empowerment expert, Beverley Glazer.

Beverley Glazer 0:34

What if retirement is not the answer once you've reached retirement age? Welcome to Aging with Purpose and Passion. I'm Beverly Glazer, work and life transition coach for women over 50, helping you turn a lifetime of wisdom into your most powerful act next. And you can find me and this podcast on reinventimpossible.com. These conversations share stories of women who refuse to disappear with age, women who challenge the rules, question the scripts, and keep building lives that are useful and true to their calling. Dr. Sara Hart spent decades helping people think better, lead better, and see new possibilities. After more than 40 years in corporate America, leadership development, executive coaching, and consulting, she reached a point where the old path no longer worked. So Sara built a new one. Through Prime Spark and her anti-retirement work, she challenges the assumption that women over 50 should not step back and quietly move aside. If you've ever felt that you're too old or not good enough or felt the pressure to retire before your time, this conversation is for you. And stay with us till the end, and I'll share key takeaways and practical tips that you can start using for your life right now. So welcome, Dr. Sarah. Thank you, Beverly. It's wonderful to be here with

Growing Up In Small-Town Ohio

Beverley Glazer 2:13

you. Sarah, you grew up in Ohio. What was that childhood like back then?

Dr. Sara Hart 2:20

I actually had a wonderful childhood. Um I lived in a very, very small farming town. Um and because of the times and also where I lived, we could just be outside all the time and on our own, which kids generally can't do now. But in the summer, I would go out in the morning and I had to be home for dinner. Um, and my mother, I think a lot of the time didn't know where I was. And so it developed real independence that way. I mean, you know, and and there were, I mean, things could have happened, but but not like they can today. And so um I had a a a wonderful, wonderful summers being outside, going to what we called a lake, what was really sort of just a hole, but we called it a lake. Um my my grandparents lived just on the edge of the town where I grew up, and they had a farm and spent a fair amount of time there. So it was really good. Um, life revolved around school and church because that's all there was there. And so that's what we did.

Beverley Glazer 3:40

So, how did that lead you into psychology and leadership development?

Dr. Sara Hart 3:46

I don't know, Beverley. Um, I mean, I I certainly didn't see any role models for that. Um, but I went to college in Ohio and then I went to graduate school at Northwestern in um Evanston in Chicago. And well, I had a boss for years at Pfizer where where I worked, and he said, we used to to argue about this, you would have been very good if you hadn't gone through the 60s. And I think the 60s in Chicago were really strong. I mean, that is that was the 68 convention, that was um Martin Luther King was killed, Chicago burned, it was the um the big riots there, and it changed me, you know, it just it changed me. And so um how I got to where I am now, I don't know, but I sort of understand how I got from that to something different, yeah.

From the Women’s Movement to Corporate Leadership

Beverley Glazer 5:04

And what messages did you have like growing up or through school about retirement and aging? Were there any messages there to think about it?

Dr. Sara Hart 5:15

There's certain I don't think there was anything said, but it was a given that um I mean most I only knew one woman who worked at a full-time job, and she taught because her husband had died, and so she was she was the only woman I knew with a full-time job, so it it applied primarily to men, but you retired when you got to be 65, period. And I nobody ever talked about it, it just was a given. That's just what you did, yeah. Um, yeah, and you know, um, so that's I learned that because it it was given it was in the air, nobody really talked about it, it just happened.

Beverley Glazer 6:07

But you also were in corporate, you were at Pfizer, you were there for a good 20 years or so, right? And why did all of a sudden you realize this is not for you?

Dr. Sara Hart 6:20

Oh, I don't know, Beverly. It's that thing that happens for, I believe, for many women in their late 40s, early 50s. Um, I had worked for Pfizer for five years in the UK, and I came back, and it was one of those things I think you can't go home again. And I worked for about five or three years after I got back, and I just couldn't do it anymore. I mean, I just it was it was a wonderful job, it was a wonderful company. I lived in Mystic, Connecticut. I had a gorgeous house, I had a lot of friends, everything was fine, except it wasn't. Um, and I just but you know, I just couldn't do it anymore. But I talked to women who go through the same thing, and it's hard to say this, this, this happened. It's it's almost like I entered a new period in my life without my knowing it. And this was one of the things that happened during that time.

Beverley Glazer 7:26

Did you think that maybe something changed when you were in the UK?

Dr. Sara Hart 7:31

Well, it changed in the sense that um I was uh head of HR for the research division, and so I had my I managed my own department and had you know people reporting to me. And I hadn't, I mean, I'd had um people reporting to me in the US, but it wasn't my department, and so it was a it was a huge learning experience and very scary initially. Um, but I got used to it, and then I came back to the United States, and I honestly felt a bit like I'd gone back to high school. Um, you know, I I had been living in a different country with a different culture. I mean, we think of the UK and the US as being very similar in a lot of ways they are, but in a lot of ways they're not. And so I'd been living in a different culture, I'd been managed my managing my own department, and then I came back into the same job I'd left, reporting the same person I'd reported to. And there'd been a lot of growth, and it was a the division was very different, but it was still a lot the same, and I felt I'd gone backwards.

Beverley Glazer 8:51

Yeah, and no challenge anymore.

Dr. Sara Hart 8:54

Well, it was challenging in the sense that it was a it there were a lot more people, and so you know. Um I also this happened, I got used to this, but initially I had trouble with the culture. I had almost more trouble coming home than going there, and it all encapsulated for me. One day I was in the grocery store, and there was a whole aisle on both sides of cereal, and I thought, how much cereal do we need? You know, and so it was just it was um a very strange experience.

Beverley Glazer 9:38

Complete culture shock, right?

Dr. Sara Hart 9:40

It was, it was weird to come home and have culture shock, but I think exactly.

When Success No Longer Fits

Beverley Glazer 9:46

But you also made this dramatic decision to sell your possessions, most of them, and drive across the country. Tell us about that.

Dr. Sara Hart 9:57

In retrospect, I think, Sara, what were you thinking? Um, but the only thing I knew I wanted to do, I knew I had to leave. The only thing I knew I wanted to do was live in San Francisco. That is all I knew. And so I flew to San Francisco San Francisco from Connecticut and found a building where I thought I could live, flew back, put my house on the market. It sold in three days. Oh boy. Um, and I was not ready. Well, you know, I wasn't ready for that. But when you sell your house, you you get out. So I had a huge, huge garage sold.

Selling Up And Driving To San Francisco

Dr. Sara Hart 10:36

I sold most of what I owned, um, threw things in the car and started across the country. Now, what happened with that? I had people who are are older will remember this, but you used to be able to get from AAA trip ticks. And they were um thing, they were um things that you'd flip pages, and it was your route to wherever you were going. And it gave um the route, it gave um motels, it gave places to eat, you know. So it was all I had a whole thing mapped out across the United States. The day I was supposed to leave, there was a huge snowstorm that was coming across Pennsylvania, and I couldn't get across the Pennsylvania Turnbike. And if I didn't get out of Connecticut, I wasn't gonna get out of Connecticut. So I drove as fast as I could down the East Coast and got the southernmost route, which I don't remember now. Maybe it's five, whatever the southernmost route is, um, and started off. I had no, we there weren't, it didn't have Google maps at that time. Um, I there were maps, but I didn't have any maps of where of my route. And so I just started driving and just stayed on that that superhighway. And when I needed to stop um at night, I went to a town and found a motel and stayed. And when I got hungry, most of the time for lunch, all across the United States, I ate fish sandwiches at McDonald's because you knew what you were gonna get, you know. So I I got to this um in San Francisco and I was living in one room. Um, people who didn't know me well thought I was having a nervous breakdown because I'd left this wonderful job, this beautiful home. And now I was living in one room and I had no job and no job prospects. I had no idea what it was. All I knew I wanted to do was first live in San Francisco. Then after I got there, I all I knew I wanted to do was go to the coffee shop in the morning and drink coffee and read the paper until I was done. So for almost a year, I went to the gym and then I went to the coffee shop. Now, Pfizer, bless them, hired me back for some consulting work, so I had some income. Um, and you know, when you leave something you've been, I've experienced this with other women. It takes a while to heal, to make the transition, to figure out, you know, who am I now? And so it took me a long time, but I did decide along the way I don't want to work for anybody else. So that's when I started my consulting company, Heartcom. And you became an entrepreneur, and I became an entrepreneur.

Beverley Glazer 13:33

Yeah. Why did you want to focus on women over 50? And I can identify because that's my focus too.

Dr. Sara Hart 13:40

Yeah, well, I didn't, I mean, I did um consulting in organizations for 25 years with Hartcom. And after sometime then after that, I realized I'd been in corporate America, which you said for for 40 years, and that was enough. And I don't know, Beverly. I was working with a coach. I said, you know what I want to do? I want to work with and on behalf of older women. And she said, Oh, your golden years. Oh no, no, no, no, no. I want to, I want to work with women in the prime of their lives. I want to help them find that spark inside that will ignite them into the future. And I thought, find that spark in the prime, prime spark. So that's when

Prime Spark, Ageism, and Women Over 50

Dr. Sara Hart 14:33

prime spark was was born. And I don't know. Well, I had had a couple things happen in a doctor's office and in a shoe store where I was clearly treated because of that I was an older woman. And I thought, this can't happen. This is not fair, this is awful, and so that may have been the genesis. Um, it wasn't conscious at the time, but in retrospect, that that certainly I'm I think added to it at least.

Beverley Glazer 15:09

Uh yeah, for sure. What do you think is the biggest myth, though, that women have about retirement?

Dr. Sara Hart 15:17

Well,

Prime Spark, Ageism, and Women Over 50

Dr. Sara Hart 15:18

I think the biggest myth is that when you retire, you quit. Basically, you um maybe not literally, but you sit down. You just you sort of drop out, and you fill your life with activities. Now, there's nothing wrong with that, but so here's a woman who's had uh a wonderful career, she has all these skills and all this experience and all this wisdom, and she walks away from it and plays bingo. Now that is a terrible waste. Um, and we know that the best way to stay healthy and to keep your mind healthy is to stay active and engaged with a purpose, uh, with with people, um, with schedules. And so it's not just that the world needs older women's wisdom, it's that the women need to stay involved also. So the biggest myth is that you're done. I think is you're just at a point where you're ready.

Beverley Glazer 16:43

Yeah. Uh, I'm hearing you loud and clear. I think women are just starting when they reach 50.

Dr. Sara Hart 16:50

Yeah, I think that's right. I mean, you and I are preaching to the choir when we talk about it. We sure are, we sure are.

Beverley Glazer 16:57

But many of the choir is listening. Yeah. And many of the choir are also saying, ah, that's me, but what do I do? What do you speak to that? What would you say?

Dr. Sara Hart 17:11

Well, I

How To Choose What’s Next

Dr. Sara Hart 17:12

think the first thing is what you do is realize I have choice. I mean, maybe I was forced into retirement. I mean, that that happens to people. Maybe I wasn't forced, but I wasn't getting promotions, I wasn't getting good projects. And so I wasn't forced out, literally, but I was forced out. Or I was just like me, I can't do this anymore. Um, but you don't you don't need to quit and sit down and stop. So the biggest the biggest thing is to realize you are on the brink of a whole new thing. At age 50, you may very well live for another 30, 40, 50 years. That's a whole adult lifetime. What do you want to do with it? And so I think the thing to do first is to realize I've got choice. I don't have to follow the usual path. And two, I believe you need to talk to somebody. If you have a really good friend you trust, talk to her. Just be careful she doesn't try to talk you into staying where you are. When I was leaving Pfizer had people try to talk me into staying where I was, um, and they meant well, but um it's not what I needed. So if you have a friend who can really help you think it through, do that. I worked with a coach. Um, I don't think everybody has to work with a coach, but I did because I didn't everybody I tried to talk to about it tried to keep me where I was, and so I saw that was not gonna work, and so um I worked with a coach. So the first thing to do is to find somebody to talk to because most of us can't figure this out on our own. Um, and so I think that that's you you realize you got choice and you find somebody to talk to. It's really important, I believe, not to think I've got to find my purpose. I mean, if I anything can freeze people, it's I've got to find my purpose. I I think we have lots of purposes in our life, and I don't think you don't need to find your purpose. Um, I encourage women to at least begin by putting together a portfolio career. You know, try lots of things, you don't have to pick one. So take what you know and try some consulting or try some um volunteering where you'll use some of the skills you have with an organization that you really support. Um take time for yourself. You like to play golf, play more golf. You like to read, read more. If you like to have lunch with friends, go have lunch with friends. But do a lot of different things, and along that way, you will either decide, I really like this, I really like doing several different things. That it's it's energizing, or you will come upon something you're really interested in. I mean, there's so many things that need doing right now, and so you'll hit upon something and decide, I really want to get involved with this. But yeah, the first thing is to just try lots of different things until you find what's good for now. We're not talking about what are you gonna do for the next 40 years, you know, you're that's what you're gonna do for now.

Beverley Glazer 20:55

Yeah, that's that's a really good point. And one thing I think that you said that's really important too is just don't sit there worrying about it and looking for your purpose. It doesn't just happen, you have to continue to do something. And I I'm thinking of a client myself who said, you know, I've I've never more been more busy doing nothing in my life since I retired. And and she said, So what do I do? I am so busy, and the first thing you have to do is stop. Yeah, we can fill our time with all kinds of busyness, but does it provide value in our lives? And that's the thing. We could say yes to how many movies, how many shows, how many trips, how many, you know, how many, how many? And then you say exactly what she did. I am so busy doing nothing. You have to have value, you have to feel that you're contributing, particularly if you're a high achieving woman, because you're used to contributing. Contributing, you know? And so what frustrates you, Sarah, um, about how society treats older women?

Dr. Sara Hart 22:10

Well, it frustrates me that we are often not seen for who we really are. Um, like like my treatment, not the medical treatment, but the the inner the interpersonal treatment I had in this doctor's office. He clearly was treating me as an old woman. He would not have done that with somebody in their 30s or 40s. He simply would not have behaved that way. And so he wasn't he wasn't seeing me. I mean, I yes, I'm older, but I'm not his vision of what an older woman is, and so it really frustrates me that um so much of society hasn't caught up with who we really are. It's a new age, and not new age, but new age. You know, we're not like previous generations, and we we've got much more health, good health, longevity, um, and we're not the same. And so see us for who we are. That is the thing that that frustrates me the most. Secondly, and it's sort of in line with the same thing, but um I was working with a personal trainer at one point, and some of them are really good with working with older people, and some are not, and so one of the ones I had was just take it easy and do this, and then it don't, you know, and I was just this is not working, and so um, as they see us as whoever it is, see as older people, they put restrictions on what they think we can do and expectations for who we are, and that drives me nuts.

Beverley Glazer 24:04

See us for who we are, and what happens is we fall into those stereotypes too, and we treat ourselves as if we're not capable.

Dr. Sara Hart 24:13

Yeah, I mean, the first, I mean, I my whole thing uh with Prime Spark is really gendered ageism, and the place to start with that is me, you know, because we all are ageist. I mean, that's how we grew up that way, and so get in touch with how I feel about older people. How do I feel about older women? How do I really feel about older women? How do I really feel about getting older? I mean, it it's when somebody says, that's how old you are. Oh my god, you look great. You don't look your age. That seems good, but what they're really saying is if you looked your age, you'd look much worse than you do now. So it's getting in touch with that kind of thing and realizing that we've got a lot of that internalized and we need to get in touch with it. So when any of that kind of thing happens, we can identify it and not and not identify with it.

Beverley Glazer 25:17

Yeah. So what final message would you like to tell older women who've lost confidence in themselves because of all this?

Dr. Sara Hart 25:26

Um look at what who you really are, look at what you've done. Look for Beverly, look for me. We're everywhere. I've I did a podcast with 130 women, and I've sort of not done quite so much of that now, but they're we're all over 50 and they're all doing amazing things. So look for for older women who are doing things rather than who are matching your model of what you think that means. But pay attention to yourself, really think about the amazing things you've accomplished in your life and what you still can do. You're not done. My whole thing is anti-retirement for women too smart to retire. Um, and so get into that. I'm too smart. I am I am really smart, I am really capable. What do I want to do next? I'm at the beginning, and and tell yourself these kinds of messages because you get the opposite from out there all the time. So if you if you can be in a group of friends who feel the way I'm talking, great. If you can't, then you'll have to be your own cheerleader.

Beverley Glazer 26:56

And find new friends.

Dr. Sara Hart 26:57

And find new friends.

Beverley Glazer 26:59

Yes, find new friends.

Takeaways and Next Steps for Your Second Act

Beverley Glazer 27:02

Thank you, Sarah. Dr. Sara Hart is a speaker, a consultant, and advocate for women over 50 who refuse to disappear with age. After more than 40 years in corporate leadership, learning and development, and executive coaching, she created Prime Spark, a movement helping women rediscover their spark in the prime of their life. Her current work, anti-retirement, for Women Too Smart to Retire challenges the outdated ideas about aging and encourages women to stay visible, purposeful, and engaged. Here's some quick takeaways from this episode. Purpose, challenge, and contribution matter at every age. Stepping back should be a choice, not an expectation. And retirement does not have to be a finish line, it can be a new beginning. If this episode spoke to you, try this. Challenge one assumption about older women and question if that's really true. Ask yourself, what still excites you? That's where your new journey begins. And if you're holding back on starting something new, don't give yourself excuses. Start now. For similar episodes on life after retirement, check out episode 175, The Retirement Puzzle with Dr. Dorian Mintzer. And six, power and money after 60. That's episode 171 of Aging with Purpose and Passion. And if you like podcasts of older women, the Late Bloomer Living Podcast helps you find joy, embrace change, and live playfully. That's latebloomerliving.com. And so, Sarah, where can people find you? Please share your links.

Dr. Sara Hart 28:56

Oh, thank you, Beverley well, the best place to find out about everything that we're doing is uh the website primesparkwomen.com. Primesparkwomen.com. I'm also on LinkedIn and Facebook, primarily LinkedIn. So I do a lot more posting on LinkedIn than Facebook. Um but the place to start really is the website, Primesparkwomen.com.

Beverley Glazer 29:23

Perfect. And Dr. Sara's Heart's links are in the show note description and there are my site too. That's reInventimpossible.com. And so my friends, what's next for you? Are you ready to become unstoppable? Well, download my free roadmap, and that's in the show notes. And please add us to your playlist, share this with a friend. And remember, you only have one life, so live it with purpose and passion.

Announcer 29:59

Thank you for joining us. You can connect with Bev on her website, reinventimpossible.com. And while you're there, join our newsletter. Subscribe so you don't miss an episode. Until next time, keep aging with purpose and passion. And celebrate life.