Announcer 0:01

Welcome to Aging with Purpose and Passion, the podcast for women over 50 and beyond who know much more lies ahead of them. Listen to real stories, hard truths, and life-changing choices that may lead you seeing your own life a little differently. Here's your host, work and life transition coach, Beverly Glazer.

Why We Stop Trusting Ourselves

Beverley Glazer 0:27

What happens when you doubted yourself for so long that you don't trust your own heart? Welcome to Aging with Purpose and Passion. I'm Beverley Glazer, a work and life transition coach for accomplished women over 50, to clarify what they want in their lives and to make it happen. And you can find more about me on reinventimpossible.com. These conversations go beyond inspiring stories. They're about the moments that make you stop, question what you know, and make difficult choices and move forward. We don't sugarcoat the hard parts here. We talk about what changed, what it took to go through it, and what became possible because of it. So today I'm joined by Randi Fine, an internationally known author, coach, educator, and expert in narcissistic abuse. For the past 15 years, Randy has helped people understand emotionally destructive relationships and trust themselves again. But today we're not only talking about narcissistic abuse. If you've ever been lost in a relationship, doubted what you know, or wondered whether it's too late to become who you want to be, this conversation is for you. And stay with us to the end because I'll share some quick takeaways and what you can do for yourself too. So welcome, Randi. Welcome.

Randi Fine 2:02

Thank you, Beverley. Thank you for having me. It's really great to be here.

How Childhood Chaos Shapes Relationships

Beverley Glazer 2:06

Randy, what was it like growing up, growing up in your family?

Randi Fine 2:13

It was a real challenging childhood. Um, I grew up in a family of five with a mother who was narcissistic. Of course, I didn't know that until I was older. Um, a father who was uh World War II vet, and we found out many years later that he had PTSD. Um it was a very tumultuous household, uh, very inflamed. Things went from zero to a hundred all the time out of nowhere for no reason. Um and so um, you know, I was the youngest child, two sisters, and I was very sensitive but very smart. And I became sort of the family, I was the one who brought the calm and the reasonable, the understanding to the family system as the youngest one of the member of all of them, you know. But it was very difficult for me, and I think my my nervous system was always on high alert.

Beverley Glazer 3:19

Sure. Did you ever realize anything was wrong that other people weren't living like that?

Randi Fine 3:25

No, I really didn't. Um, I thought that that was normal. That was the family that I knew. Um, it was just really difficult because my sisters were crying a lot, there were door slamming, they were always being yelled at, you know. But I just figured, I mean, my parents were religious, Jewish, and um they just seemed to be kind of frumpy and you know, they were modern, but they just seemed kind of frumpy and maybe older than my other friend's parents. And I just figured maybe that's what it was.

Learning To Confuse Drama With Love

Beverley Glazer 4:01

Right. So you rationalize that that's just really the way it was, and you just continued, you know, to live your life. And did your childhood affect your relationships going forward?

Randi Fine 4:16

Oh my gosh, yes. Tremendously. So my parents, you know, they talked about how much they loved each other, and but the love was really a very toxic one. It was a very unpredictable one because they would say that there was my mother would say there's nobody greater than your father, my father would say there's nobody more wonderful than your mother, and then they would call each other names and yell at each other over all everything. And so when I began to get into relationships, I thought that the crazier and the more tumultuous the relationship was, the deeper the love was. I was very confused. So I got into some very, very toxic relationships.

Beverley Glazer 5:03

Yeah. And how did you how do you even know they were toxic? Because for you, that was the norm.

Randi Fine 5:10

It was. And the other, the other really interesting thing about the relationships I got into was my mother used to give me really weird advice. I mean, I it it seemed very motherly at the time. But she would say to me, you know, Randy, it's not the good people that get ahead in the life. It's the shysters and the ones who hurt people and the ones who take advantage of other people. They're the ones who really get ahead in life. She goes, I wish I could be like that. So what did I look for? The worst of the worst of the worst. The more the the badder they were, the more anti-society they were, the more criminal they were, the more I liked them.

Beverley Glazer 5:58

That was your mad. Yeah.

Randi Fine 6:00

That was it. And eventually you married one. I did. Yeah. Eventually I did.

Leaving a Dangerous Marriage With a Newborn

Randi Fine 6:08

I married one, but when I got into the relationship, it didn't look the way I thought it was going to look. So he told me right off the bat that he was a recovering addict and that he was one year sober, but he was a junkie. He was a, you know, he shot heroin. Um I was very young, and I looked at him. He he was he owned his own home. He had a really nice car, he came from a great family, he worked for a family business. It all looked really good on paper. And I couldn't imagine, and this was way back in oh, was the no, it was the 80s, the early 80s. And I thought a heroin addict was somebody at that time that was just down and out lying in the street. And here was somebody that was so put together and so nice, and I just didn't recognize it. So I didn't want to look at it, and I fell in love. Um, and it was just a crazy relationship because he started using again, and I just thought, and I was very codependent from my childhood, and I just thought, I will just love him so much, I'm gonna want to use again. And we just went through these ups and downs and ups and downs. And I tried to leave him one time. My parents actually sent me back to him. I went to them, they sent me back because my mother was very charmed by his charismatic personality and and the fact that his family had money. They were very impressed by that. And they they just said, Oh, go back, you know, he really is sorry about all of this. Sent me back. I went back, nearly ruined my life, but I did marry him. And then I got pregnant and I had a child with him. And at that time, um, I was very ill with my pregnancy, and I couldn't really keep an eye on him. And he began shooting cocaine at that time. He got very, very addicted. Um, and by the time I had my baby, he was in very, very bad shape. So it got dangerous, and I had to get out of there. So I was less than two months. I the baby was less than two months old when I had her, um, and I had to leave. And I didn't have any money because he screwed me financially, wouldn't put my name on the house, anything like that. I had to go back home to my parents, and it was a really abusive environment. So it was a very it was a really crazy time for me.

Beverley Glazer 8:46

So you went from one abusive environment right back home to where it all started.

Randi Fine 8:52

Yes.

Beverley Glazer 8:53

And what was going on at the time? How did you manage now taking care of a baby and being the child in that family as well?

Randi Fine 9:03

Um, you know, frankly, I wanted to die. I really did. Um, my parents were coming in the room and screaming at me, you know, you can't let that baby cry. And uh, you know, and it was just an and arguing about my ex-husband and the things he was doing. And it was, it was, it was nuts. Plus, I didn't have any money, no money of my own, so I was completely dependent on them. And I the only thing that really kept me going was the fact that I had this beautiful little girl, and I just told myself I'm never going to give her the life that I had, I'm never going to subject her to that. And that's what kept me going. I just kept holding on to the fact that I want something better for her than I had. And so what I would do was, you know, I was very, very depressed. My parents were helping me out financially. They sent me to um a school so I could educate myself, so I could get a job. Um, and they paid for an attorney and they did things like that, but they really kind of were trying to keep me there. They wanted to raise my daughter, and they were trying to keep me home. And the money that they were giving me was sort of tainted. But um I I rose above that, you know, and I decided I'm I'm going to get away from this and I'm going to really make better for myself. But I did just didn't know how. I didn't have a lot of tools. And like I said, I was very depressed. I was dating, trying to meet other guys while I was nursing a baby. It was a really strange time, very, very strange time. Um, but I finally did get back on my feet. I got a job, and um I started dating and I met somebody really nice, but I was having a hard time with the nice guys. I really, you know, it wasn't doing it for me. And I didn't really I was talking to a girlfriend of mine and I was saying, I'm going on all these dates and I, you know, I just can't, I just can't find the right guy. And she said, you know, you have a friend, Billy, and he's really everything you're you're looking for. But you know, Billy was I was kind of dating him, he was kind of a friend, but he was about four years younger. And I was just, I had my child at 27. He was like 23 or 24, and I thought, uh, you know, I really need a father for this child, and he's very young, and I don't know, you know. But when she said that to me, like a light bulb went off. And I thought, you know, maybe you're right. So the next time I saw him, I kind of grabbed his hand. And um, we've been together for thirty, we've been married for 38 years. Um that and he was a really nice guy from a really nice family, you know. But I had to do, I had to really shake myself loose and and just go, you need normal, Randy, normal.

Reinventing Your Career After 50

Beverley Glazer 12:24

Right. But it's so hard. I know I've worked with so many women who were in abusive relationships and and are perfectly functional on the outside, no problem. It's just the relationships that they get in because of their history and because you're just used to the abusive relationship. So you don't feel it's normal. So, how were you able to not push those buttons? Because that is what happens. You start pushing the buttons to try to make them angry, you know, try to make something happen. How did you realize, no, I've got to stop this? This is not what it should, the way it should be. Did you find yourself doing that?

Randi Fine 13:09

Well, it it was hard for me. But before I got into this relationship, I had, you know, what I used to go. This this was before the internet, this was, you know, way before any of those electronics. So I used to go to the library and I would stand in front of the self-help section and I would say, something jump out at me. Just jump out at me. I don't know what I need. And the the book, Women Who Love Too Much, jumped out at me. And I read it, and as I'm reading it, I'm going, Oh my gosh, Randi, you are codependent. You are making all of these choices, all of the things that have happened to you. And there was a whole bunch of trauma in my life, other than the relationships. A lot of things happened to me, dangerous things. I almost lost my life. Dangerous things happened to me because I just kept putting myself in situations. And so, and I went, hmm, you have something to do with this. Yeah. So I really began to look at myself and the way that I operated within relationships and really in every area of my life, and made very, very different decisions. I really used my head rather than my heart. Um, and so, yes, we struggled a bit, but not as much as I you would have thought that I would. Um, because by that point, I really saw that this was somebody who absolutely loved my child. I I didn't even know if he loved me as much as I loved her. Okay. She was a year old when we met. He loved her so much, and I thought, this is so good for us, you know. And this is somebody that is just so lovable and fun, a lot of fun. I didn't think normal guys could be fun. He was really fun, and you know, and he was spoiling me and taking me. We were having a great time. Um, I had this as I was going through this transition of, oh my God, I gotta date normal guys. I just had this vision in my head that it would be somebody real nerdy with this like government-assigned glasses and this pocket with the pens in it, and this briefcase, and he'd be so nerdy with a short sleeved shirt. And I thought, oh god, I don't think I can do this. But this guy was cute and he was fun, and we had a great time, and we got along, and there was chemistry, and it was like all the things, and I said, Oh, maybe I was really wrong. So he sold me.

Beverley Glazer 15:57

And you were living a good life, and at 50, when life was continuing to be okay, for some reason now you wanted more for yourself. Why?

Reinventing At 50 Into A Career

Beverley Glazer 16:10

What happened there where you said, you know, now I want something more for me.

Randi Fine 16:17

So I did the normal transition when I got out of high school. I I went to college, I went right to college, and I wanted to do psychology. I always was good at that and art, I was going to do it, be an art therapist. But I chose to live at home because I don't know why I didn't want to want to go away. Um, very strange. You know, you're living in an abusive environment, but you don't want to go away. Like I it's what was normal to me. So um, but my home life was so tumultuous that I dropped out of college. So I never got a degree. I went right to work at 19, left home. And now here I was in my 50s, and my youngest child was going away to college. And I said, you know, I need something for me. Because I was pretty much a stay-at-home job. I stay-at-home mom, I worked part-time jobs and everything like that. But um, so I started by I was getting my hair done one day, and I was telling my life story to my hairdresser, and she goes, Oh, God, Randy, you need to write a book. And I said, I am the worst writer, can't write. Um, but God, you know, maybe I should. So I set out about writing my memoir. And um I wrote it. It wasn't so great in the beginning, you know, but I refined it and refined it and refined it. And through the writing of that book, it was like, well, now I have to market it. Now I gotta learn to be technologically savvy. I've got to get on social media, I have to do all these things. And so I started doing all those things and connecting with people. And I connected, I made this friend, a friend with uh a man who also had written a book, and he kept encouraging me. And he said to me, You know, you're super intuitive, you're really good at talking to people and giving advice. And I think you really need to take this narcissistic abuse thing that you suffered. I think you really need to take this professionally. And I said, That's ludicrous. I don't have a degree, I don't have a license, who's gonna pay me? He said, I think you should do it. So I signed up for something. I didn't tell my husband because I thought he's gonna think I'm mad. I'm nuts. You know, who's gonna pay Randy for this? And I started getting clients. So that was over 15 years ago. Um, now I'm internationally, internationally renowned for the work that I do. I've written four books. Um, I had a podcast for 12 years. Um, you know, and I am just very active in narcissistic abuse, parental alienation, um, all things um that are personality disordered abuse. Um, and I've built a career, you know, and I just it just blossomed from nothing. I really went from zero, from absolutely not knowing anything, not knowing how to write, not knowing anything, to teaching myself everything and building a career from it.

Boundaries, Triggers, And Cutting Ties

Beverley Glazer 19:21

For all those years of manipulation and gaslighting and abuse, does it ever come back to you?

Randi Fine 19:31

Um I have very, very firm and strong boundaries in my life. And I also tend to keep myself fairly insulated. Um, I don't, there's certain things I don't allow in my life because I still have a very, very easily triggered nervous system from growing up in that kind of environment. And I have to be very careful with what I allow into my life. So I'm extremely particular what I do allow in. And um, I also, my husband also has an understanding with me, or I have an understanding with him, let's say, of what it is that I can and cannot tolerate in my life, just because I have some sensitivities and some triggers that I've worked through. I've worked them to the max. Um, but I know what how I have to keep myself together. Um, I did have to pretty much divorce my entire family of origin um because they wouldn't stop triggering me and they wouldn't just just wouldn't leave me alone. So I had to move past that and really move forward. And so that's why I'm super protective over my recovery.

Beverley Glazer 20:59

And what would you tell someone just looking back at yourself? What would you tell somebody who sits there feeling trapped, feeling that they're also in an emotionally abusive relationship, just listening to you? What would you tell that person?

Randi Fine 21:22

I would tell them that the situation that you're in is not what you need for the rest of your life, and it's very hard to make changes, but you absolutely can. I got myself out of so many situations and I moved forward because I was really determined to make a better life for myself and my family. Um, I ended up having another child. Um, but you cannot do this by yourself, and I think the mistake that so many Many people make is they think they should be able to get themselves out of situations. They should be able to think their way out. They should be able to do it alone. And if you are in an abusive environment, a toxic environment, you're not going to be able to think your way out because you your mind has been altered and you're in survival mode. And the way that you're thinking is not going to be conducive to healing. So it's very important that you educate yourself on what you're dealing with and you find a person that you trust that can help guide you out of this process. I know that I help people, people come to me in all different stages, you know, whether they're out or whether they're in, whether they're thinking maybe I'm in an um abusive environment, um, I'm not really sure, or they're thinking, you know, I need to divorce this person. How do I get out? I help people meet them exactly where they're at, and I help transition them to where they are comfortable, where they want to go with this. Um, so it doesn't really matter what stage you're in, um, the thing is that you deserve better. Uh, you don't have to live like this. You deserve better. You deserve to have a happy life and to make choices of your own. Nobody should be telling you or can tell you what you should think, what you should do, and nobody should be controlling your life. Yeah.

Rebuilding Self-Trust: Takeaways and Resources

Beverley Glazer 23:32

So what I'm hearing is that it's possible to change. Thank you. Thank you, Randi. Randi Fine is an author, a coach, an educator who helps people recover from destructive relationships and narcissistic abuse. She's also the creator of the post-narcissistic reality hangover to help reclaim a sense of self and move forward with clarity and trust. Here are a few takeaways from this episode. Trust what you know. If it feels wrong, it probably is. Your past doesn't define your future. And it's never too late. You can rebuild yourself at any age. If you've been identifying with this episode, here are some things that you can do for yourself right now. Pay attention to your feelings. Disregard other people's truths. Make your own decisions. Not everyone needs to agree with you. And ask what you want for yourself at this point in life. It may not seem possible now, but may also be very attainable. Reach out for advice. For similar episodes on aging with purpose and passion, check out episode 196, when the story you believe is not the whole story, and episode 198, when you stop trusting yourself. And if you like podcasts for older women, Reinvention Rebels celebrates women from 60 to 90 plus who redesigned their lives and chased big dreams without apologies. That's reinventionrebels.com. And so, Randy, where can people find you? Please share your links.

Randi Fine 25:27

Sure. So my website is randyfine.com or a n-di f I-n-e.com. Everything is on there. I have hundreds of articles, I have links to all the books I've written, and you can learn about the how I can help you and how I help other people. Um, also I have a YouTube channel. It's the Randy Fine YouTube channel, and there's lots of great videos on that. I used to be a podcaster. Um, I'm also on Instagram, Randy G Fine. I'm on LinkedIn, I'm on Facebook, you can find me everywhere.

Beverley Glazer 26:00

Terrific. Because all those links are in the show notes, and they're on my site too. That's reinventimpossible.com. And now, my friends, what's next for you? What have you been thinking about that you haven't done yet? Send me a message. I'd love to hear. And if this episode spoke to you, subscribe, share it with someone who may need it. And remember, you only have one life, so live it with purpose and passion.

Announcer 26:34

You've been listening to Aging with Purpose and Passion with Beverley Glazer. For more conversations and to explore Beverley's work, visit reinventimpossible.com. This story ends here. Yours may just be beginning.